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    Originally posted by GRAW2ROBZ View Post
    Isn't Iron Galaxy still collecting money from any sales of digital 7dtd on XBOX1/PS4 yet? They should be still in the loop. TFP should still be passing on any pc data to Iron Galaxy for ports patches/updates. TTG was just the publisher. Not sure they are needed are they? Game is out in the digital console store collecting money. I thought somebody here said PS4 had 7d2d on sale a month or so back.

    I'm sure people are buying it yet. I think it is a shame that TFP actually bought the rights back. TFP only bought it back to maybe consider porting it to XBOX2/PS5 after PC version goes gold. As for SylenThunder "It will still cost millions of dollars. We've had this discussion already." Millions for what? Why not stew up a new deal with Iron Galaxy?

    They probably still collecting money from digital sales yet for consoles. So they probably more less in the loop for royalties. Just have Iron Galaxy collect a percent of the cut of new pending sales after a few patches trinkle out. Yeah i'm sure they want some walking around money to start. But a million to maybe weasel out a old patch they have sitting on a PC ready to be ported and go through certification from XBOX1/PS4? Bit steep for a tiny game to begin with.

    Heck didn't that one guy buy or take the rights over for that game then turned it into PUBG for PC then had that ported to consoles after. I'm sure that game making a haul. Subnautica doing well on consoles. ARK is making a killing. I just bought two other games as in Dawn of Man and Surviving the after math. I'm sure they collecting money.

    Also I seen that tweet about 7dtd had most active player base or something on Steam. So if PC is doing good. What's the hold up other then when they decide the game is gold? TFP should be raking in the cash by now. Yet they go to a auction to buy TTG portion of their rights back to now hold the console version hostage. I don't think its right at all. Yet were suppose to forgive and go ahead and buy 7dtd on next gen consoles once that's ported though.

    Or if 7dtd making a killing on PC. Then TFP should be hiring more people to make a new division for their company to be ready for console ports or updates possibly be their own publisher. Or pass their console rights up for grabs or sell the whole game to EA or somebody or heck even Microsoft. Microsoft bought Minecraft for $2.5 billion. Or have Microsoft buy TFP company. Microsoft always looking for new exclusive first party companies. I'm sure Microsoft could look into the coding and see the MD5 bug pretty quickly within a month or so of owning the rights.

    Microsoft bought that other zombie game State of decay 1 & 2 Undead Labs company. Its exclusive first party game now. They go from hardly any updates to a update minimum of once a month with bigger budget. They adding new clothes and outfits and what not there.

    (Disclaimer: The following is just careful guessing and estimating done from what is publicly known)

    Iron Galaxy was definitely only contract worker for the porting, no sales money ever went through them. They simply were paid by TTG to do the port. It is safe to say that IG was totally out of any loop once TTG went bankrupt.

    In my estimation simply finishing the version IG was working on would cost TFP somewhere between .5 and 1 million. And equally important a lot of work and time they can't delegate (especially initially to find and negotiate with a publisher and a developer). Now .5 to 1 mil for a company that has a successfull product but also developed it for 7 years now is not small change. Add all the management work neccessary to enable such a deal (surely hated by any developer) and you have two big reasons why TFP doesn't want to do this

    New sales from a patch that is miles behind the PC version and has already been sold to its target audience for a few years will probably not be that great. It could be with luck. But you also have to take into account that TFP finally got everything cleared with the rights in Summer last year. I would guess it would have taken them from 9 months to over a year altogether before the patch would have arrived on console. And that would be very close to the time the new consoles went on sale. The chances are pretty slim to recoup even half the expenses after that because a lot of console owners will buy one of the new consoles and buy games only for the new one.

    Selling out to Microsoft: I'm sure there is a price where TFP would sell their company. But is Microsoft even interested? Microsoft strategically overpayed Minecraft because it wanted influence on generations of young people at an age where influencing them is still easy. They now strategically bought game companies to fill their upcoming console(!!!) with games. Why should they buy a company and then finance a patch on the OLD console?

    Comment


      Originally posted by meganoth View Post
      (Disclaimer: The following is just careful guessing and estimating done from what is publicly known)

      Iron Galaxy was definitely only contract worker for the porting, no sales money ever went through them. They simply were paid by TTG to do the port. It is safe to say that IG was totally out of any loop once TTG went bankrupt.

      In my estimation simply finishing the version IG was working on would cost TFP somewhere between .5 and 1 million. And equally important a lot of work and time they can't delegate (especially initially to find and negotiate with a publisher and a developer). Now .5 to 1 mil for a company that has a successfull product but also developed it for 7 years now is not small change. Add all the management work neccessary to enable such a deal (surely hated by any developer) and you have two big reasons why TFP doesn't want to do this

      New sales from a patch that is miles behind the PC version and has already been sold to its target audience for a few years will probably not be that great. It could be with luck. But you also have to take into account that TFP finally got everything cleared with the rights in Summer last year. I would guess it would have taken them from 9 months to over a year altogether before the patch would have arrived on console. And that would be very close to the time the new consoles went on sale. The chances are pretty slim to recoup even half the expenses after that because a lot of console owners will buy one of the new consoles and buy games only for the new one.

      Selling out to Microsoft: I'm sure there is a price where TFP would sell their company. But is Microsoft even interested? Microsoft strategically overpayed Minecraft because it wanted influence on generations of young people at an age where influencing them is still easy. They now strategically bought game companies to fill their upcoming console(!!!) with games. Why should they buy a company and then finance a patch on the OLD console?
      Well Microsoft bought Undead Labs midpoint of State of decay 2. Also Microsoft promotes backward compatibility. People still buying old digital copies of 360 games for XBOX1. Yeah half million to one million is a lot of money a tiny indie company. But still heck at $30 for digital 7dtd going price now for XBOX1.

      Sell a half a million is what $15M? Scratch off the Microsoft/Sony cuts off the top. TFP still got a Brinks truck to back up to the bank. TFP need to think their long game. Not get blood in the water this gen and maybe fans gets salty and give the next port a bad name even if its bug free or not for XBOX2/PS5.

      Heck have a sale for $15 with a update and maybe swing for the fences and hope they sell a million copies or more. Million copies at $15 each still $15M then subtract the Microsoft/Sony fees and Iron Galaxy fees. Still money for Fun pimps to go full speed ahead and finish off PC version for gold.

      Then go on to 7DtD2 for next gen and PC. Yeah my idea is a lot of what ifs and a bit of luck for sales. But better then sitting on their hands and only going gold for PC and neglect this gen consoles. Even though this gen consoles probably help flip the bill for some of these PC updates.

      Isn't like TFP are eating Ramen noodle all week for years making this game. What are the sales figures for just PC? A few million copies sold or what? Steam says its $25 or $40 for PC version. After scrolling on the PC Steam page for 7dtd says 10 million copies were sold. So don't go saying TFP are flat broke. Even after Steam gets their cut. Then paying all TFP employees and their studio rent payments if they rent a place or own a building and utilities and what not. Don't tell me 10 million times whatever money they got with full price or sale prices. They could easily have $25M. They cant cough up a half a million or one million? Yeesh.

      Comment


        Originally posted by GRAW2ROBZ View Post
        Well Microsoft bought Undead Labs midpoint of State of decay 2. Also Microsoft promotes backward compatibility. People still buying old digital copies of 360 games for XBOX1. Yeah half million to one million is a lot of money a tiny indie company. But still heck at $30 for digital 7dtd going price now for XBOX1.

        Sell a half a million is what $15M? Scratch off the Microsoft/Sony cuts off the top. TFP still got a Brinks truck to back up to the bank. TFP need to think their long game. Not get blood in the water this gen and maybe fans gets salty and give the next port a bad name even if its bug free or not for XBOX2/PS5.

        Heck have a sale for $15 with a update and maybe swing for the fences and hope they sell a million copies or more. Million copies at $15 each still $15M then subtract the Microsoft/Sony fees and Iron Galaxy fees. Still money for Fun pimps to go full speed ahead and finish off PC version for gold.

        Then go on to 7DtD2 for next gen and PC. Yeah my idea is a lot of what ifs and a bit of luck for sales. But better then sitting on their hands and only going gold for PC and neglect this gen consoles. Even though this gen consoles probably help flip the bill for some of these PC updates.

        Isn't like TFP are eating Ramen noodle all week for years making this game. What are the sales figures for just PC? A few million copies sold or what? Steam says its $25 or $40 for PC version. After scrolling on the PC Steam page for 7dtd says 10 million copies were sold. So don't go saying TFP are flat broke. Even after Steam gets their cut. Then paying all TFP employees and their studio rent payments if they rent a place or own a building and utilities and what not. Don't tell me 10 million times whatever money they got with full price or sale prices. They could easily have $25M. They cant cough up a half a million or one million? Yeesh.
        Your guess is as good as mine. I would say they have well above 10 or 20 million in the bank, but dropping by 2 mil each year.

        Nowadays most copies are surely sold at steam sales. Like any other game on steam it keeps a nice full price so that it can be sold with big reductions. I remember it was reduced in the winter sale and just now (again, just a month later!) it is in a steam sale reduced by 66% for 8$. Just saying, the $23 is a marketing instrument and a pipe dream.

        They won't be scrounging the street for empty bottles ;-). I'm sure they could cough up the money if they decided to do the patch. But there is not only money involved, there is also a lot of work involved, work they didn't expect nor ever wanted. And especially not at this time when the PC version is getting finished and needs their attention.

        They definitely have more accurate numbers at their disposal. They surely have a lot better idea what to expect from steam or console sales. Since they don't leap at the chance to make a good impression with console players and make money as well, I would say they don't expect a positive balance from it and independent of any money concerns they want this additional task like one wants an appendix operation. And they probably looked deeply at the options and didn't like any of them.
        Last edited by meganoth; 4 weeks ago.

        Comment


          Originally posted by meganoth View Post
          Your guess is as good as mine. I would say they have well above 10 or 20 million in the bank, but dropping by 2 mil each year. .
          Well when it takes you 7+ years to work on 1 game that has no clear direction i'd imagine they run through money quick.

          Comment


            Originally posted by skillz_over_9000 View Post
            Well when it takes you 7+ years to work on 1 game that has no clear direction i'd imagine they run through money quick.
            We're at 6 and a half years, and 5-7 years in the industry standard for AAA companies with hundreds of developers working on a project. This is a small indie company with a handful of developers designing a game far outside the scope of what anyone else will even consider.

            None of you have any idea of the actual costs of development, or what actually gets returned to the devs from store sales. Don't pretend you have any ideas on development either.

            Comment


              i like to think that they have the brakes on to finish the pc version while waiting for next gen consoles to smash it out the park and make the best console game ever
              it has the potential to be that good imo
              Last edited by NukemDed; 4 weeks ago. Reason: i know gud spella

              Comment


                For god sake, at least reduce the price for the digital version.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by SylenThunder View Post
                  We're at 6 and a half years, and 5-7 years in the industry standard for AAA companies with hundreds of developers working on a project. This is a small indie company with a handful of developers designing a game far outside the scope of what anyone else will even consider.

                  None of you have any idea of the actual costs of development, or what actually gets returned to the devs from store sales. Don't pretend you have any ideas on development either.
                  lol i think we hit a nerve or someone is tired of finding excuses for the tfp.

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                  Originally posted by NukemDed View Post
                  i like to think that they have the brakes on to finish the pc version while waiting for next gen consoles to smash it out the park and make the best console game ever
                  it has the potential to be that good imo
                  you have high hopes lol i doubt the pc will be done even within 2 years

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by skillz_over_9000 View Post
                    Well when it takes you 7+ years to work on 1 game that has no clear direction i'd imagine they run through money quick.
                    Yeah, sure. Companies throwing out unfinished, unpolished games after 4 years are obviously better than a company that puts more effort into developing a game throroughly .

                    For example Factorio has been in development for a similar time and you will be hard pressed to find a game that is better optimized and more bug-free than that game. For some that is exemplary, others look at the years of EA development and call it a sham because it is above the average in development time(?) or because the developers take their time to try out different concepts.

                    Interesting that Telltale itself has put out an unfinished unpolished game that wasn't long enough in development to remove some serious kinks, a game called "7 Days to Die".

                    Experimentation is to be expected for development of novel game concepts. Just look at Blizzard who developed Diablo 3 from 2001 to 2011 (according to wikipedia), made presumably three internal revisions before releasing it to an open beta test. Final release was in 2012. Problems in the network code though needed further patches. Oh, and the auction house also underwent a few revisions until they finally accepted it was a mistake and patched that out completely. The irony: Diablo 3 wasn't even a new game concept, it was an Action-RPG in a long line of similar titles. And Diablo 3 was a big success story for Blizzard, by the way.

                    PS: A lot of forum users here (including me) are of the opinion that 7D2D should be in development as long as possible. Once it is finished there will be no new features coming (except for DLC and mods) and it will be at a dead end, just like the console version already is.
                    Last edited by meganoth; 4 weeks ago.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by skillz_over_9000 View Post
                      you have high hopes lol i doubt the pc will be done even within 2 years
                      Excellent. Lets hope for 3.
                      Last edited by meganoth; 4 weeks ago.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by meganoth View Post
                        Y

                        Interesting that Telltale itself has put out an unfinished unpolished game that wasn't long enough in development to remove some serious kinks, a game called "7 Days to Die".


                        PS: A lot of forum users here (including me) are of the opinion that 7D2D should be in development as long as possible. Once it is finished there will be no new features coming (except for DLC and mods) and it will be at a dead end, just like the console version already is.
                        I would rather not have console versions than an out of date and broken version. TT released an unfinished port that is true but it never would have happened had tfp not sold them the rights to an incomplete game in the first place. What console players got was essentially an unfinished version of an unfinished game that was sold as "complete".

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                        Originally posted by meganoth View Post
                        Excellent. Lets hope for 3.
                        go for 5 dont matter to me i dont play this game more than 2-3 weekends a year before i get bored with how terrible it runs on ps4

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by sushiboy69 View Post
                          For god sake, at least reduce the price for the digital version.
                          Stores set the prices. Take it up with Microsoft and Sony.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by skillz_over_9000 View Post
                            I would rather not have console versions than an out of date and broken version. TT released an unfinished port that is true but it never would have happened had tfp not sold them the rights to an incomplete game in the first place. What console players got was essentially an unfinished version of an unfinished game that was sold as "complete".
                            Actually it is very hard to define when a game is finished. If there are no obviously needed features missing a game finishedness is in the eye of the beholder. A few alphas of 7D2D could have been released after some polishing and nobody would have an objective reason to complain.

                            Would any games journalist have batted an eye if TFP had released the A15/console version (after polishing) as the final game and the coming gold version as 7D2D 2 ? If anyone thinks yes, please explain on what grounds.

                            The problem with this game seems to have been that IG already had a lot to do to make the game fit on console and not enough time to also polish/debug the game to a state that is expected by most customers. Sadly this is typical now in the games industry: Games get released and the beta test is done by the customers, usually the game reaches some final state after a few months and 2-4 after-release patches.

                            And that is especially sad if that after-release polishing is then cut short by bancruptcy.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by meganoth View Post
                              Actually it is very hard to define when a game is finished. If there are no obviously needed features missing a game finishedness is in the eye of the beholder. A few alphas of 7D2D could have been released after some polishing and nobody would have an objective reason to complain.

                              Would any games journalist have batted an eye if TFP had released the A15/console version (after polishing) as the final game and the coming gold version as 7D2D 2 ? If anyone thinks yes, please explain on what grounds.

                              The problem with this game seems to have been that IG already had a lot to do to make the game fit on console and not enough time to also polish/debug the game to a state that is expected by most customers. Sadly this is typical now in the games industry: Games get released and the beta test is done by the customers, usually the game reaches some final state after a few months and 2-4 after-release patches.

                              And that is especially sad if that after-release polishing is then cut short by bancruptcy.
                              Well honestly that would probably have been the smarter route to take. Release a finished debugged A15 version then on next gen rerelease the full game up to A18 or whatever that ends up being. I personally would have been more then willing to buy a revamped version if the original was complete. As it is now there are a lot of questions surrounding a next gen release but my main question would be if they failed the first time what makes you think it wont happen again.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by skillz_over_9000 View Post
                                Well honestly that would probably have been the smarter route to take. Release a finished debugged A15 version then on next gen rerelease the full game up to A18 or whatever that ends up being. I personally would have been more then willing to buy a revamped version if the original was complete. As it is now there are a lot of questions surrounding a next gen release but my main question would be if they failed the first time what makes you think it wont happen again.
                                They? Telltale? Surely that won't happen ever again . Sure sure, you hold TFP nearly as accountable for the console version as TTG and for you it seems TFP already released a console version.

                                Companies have a different view. If Dell sells a laptop with the hardware bought as an OEM model from a taiwanese shop and they just slap their brand name on it, add an operating system and their warranty papers into the box, that IS a Dell laptop. You as customer will never come in contact with the taiwanese OEM company and that company will never feel responsible or honor any warranty even if Dell goes bankrupt. I already brought up a similar example with marvel movies (where even a logo of marvel is on the title screen but still marvel won't do a thing if the movie is ****ed up) but obviously that didn't convince you either.

                                So again, 7D2D console is a game made by Telltale, licensed by TFP, there is a connection of sorts, the software is 90% the same. But it is an entirely distinct product and obviously TFP doesn't feel responsible for mistakes made by Telltale.

                                Now that TFP bought the rights back they are legally owners of the game and responsible for it though. Not that it amounts to much since software is universally sold without warranty.

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