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Food Spoilage and Its Effect on Game Play A17 and Beyond

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    #16
    Originally posted by Roland View Post

    The game needs spoilage big time--whether it is a deep system or a shallow barely there and highly abstracted system the game needs something that brings entropy to food and water with our infinite gardens and our chests filled with stacks of snow and empty bottles.

    Food spoilage makes the early game a daily struggle and the development of preservation tech a milestone in the game that is rewarding. Eventually you do want to reach a point when food and water are not an issue but you want that point achieved by the player's actions.

    All of this will, of course, be incredibly boring and tedious and annoying to those who like to race to the endgame-- so buckle up for more tears if and when Joel decides to pull this trigger.
    All of this well-put and agreed. I thought it would be tedious - even being tha craver of hardened survival - but wit all the food options and always hvin stockpiles, I can see this being a needed feature.

    Btw I am drunke posting after passing a pc certification pre-test, I madea request in another post and being drunk for the first time in ages I am compelled to ask here. Gore block prank, return them temp but fill them with 50 or more snakes that explode on the player when attempting to harvest. Trolland away! Okay I am logging ogff the site now.

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      #17
      I love how spoilage implemented in terra firma craft, a mod of minecraft.

      Stack is replaced with filled % of 1 inventory slot. Kind a degradation. As time passes, small part of slot is damaged/spoiled. If you keep it, spoilage speeds up gradually.
      You can stop it by cut damaged portion off the other.


      This system solves frequently argued problem.

      How the system distinguish new food stack with old one, if those 2 are stacked into 1?
      Just sum up new portion and spoiled portion of them individually. Then, recalculate spoilage rate.
      Ex)
      Stack A : 20% of new portion, 5% of old, the other portion isn't filled.
      (Spoilage rate : 20% of max speed)

      Stack B : 10% of new portion, 10% of old, the other portion isn't filled.
      (Spoilage rate : 50% of max speed)

      Stack A with B : 30% of new, 15% of old.
      (Spoilage rate : 33% of max speed)


      How the system maintain food spoilage every update tick for every stacks? It'll make game super laggy.
      Don't update periodically. Just do only on open container. Spoilage is calculated by only time passed and current spoilage rate.
      No rng or huge costed calculate is needed.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Alphado-Jaki View Post
        I love how spoilage implemented in terra firma craft, a mod of minecraft.

        Stack is replaced with filled % of 1 inventory slot. Kind a degradation. As time passes, small part of slot is damaged/spoiled. If you keep it, spoilage speeds up gradually.
        You can stop it by cut damaged portion off the other.


        This system solves frequently argued problem.

        How the system distinguish new food stack with old one, if those 2 are stacked into 1?
        Just sum up new portion and spoiled portion of them individually. Then, recalculate spoilage rate.
        Ex)
        Stack A : 20% of new portion, 5% of old, the other portion isn't filled.
        (Spoilage rate : 20% of max speed)

        Stack B : 10% of new portion, 10% of old, the other portion isn't filled.
        (Spoilage rate : 50% of max speed)

        Stack A with B : 30% of new, 15% of old.
        (Spoilage rate : 33% of max speed)


        How the system maintain food spoilage every update tick for every stacks? It'll make game super laggy.
        Don't update periodically. Just do only on open container. Spoilage is calculated by only time passed and current spoilage rate.
        No rng or huge costed calculate is needed.
        I like it

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          #19
          DIsagree. I dont think that food and water needs to be balanced for early+late.
          Its fine that food and water are only a problem at the start. Later, we should have more important concerns, like improving our base, defending and finding good items.
          We still need to eat ofc, but its fine if we have a big food stash, we arent the weaklings of the start of the game, we have more important things to do.

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            #20
            I think the farming system should eventually tie into weather and seasons. Crops don't grow in winter, hope you stocked up. Also, are you prepared for a failed harvest? Too much rain will make your potatoes rot. Drought will destroy your corn, frost will, idk, kill some other crop.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Odetta View Post
              Well I'd imagine that they would just spoil in order, no matter how you stack them. Each piece of meat having a timer, like other games do it.
              What other games?
              The one game with food spoilage I know is Don't Starve and you can "refresh" old food by stacking fresh one on it.

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                #22
                I strongly agree with a food spoilage system. The one in don't starve is working pretty well! It is a key part in a survival game.

                Instead of making the player more hungry, I'd rather find less food in the world. That way you are really happy when you find some.
                I think crops fields shouldn't have many plants on them, just a few (something like 1/4 of what we find right now).
                The same way, we shouldn't be able to find any fresh food in POI's, only cans.
                Also stacking snowball doesn't make sense. It would be better to pick snow with a jar/can.

                With that I'd like to see a bit more than stats in the farming perks : unlocking fertilizer, watering system, ...

                @junuxx Seasons would be great but It would need much more work than tweaking a few things... Would love that thaugh!

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                  #23
                  as much as i hate to say it, but i think roland is right in this. The game needs a spoilage system, but some users that mistake 7d2d for a shooter instead of a survival-crafting game will hate it.

                  @Kaitof: What other games? Almost all of those that have survival somewhere in their description. Ark, Conan Exiles, Empyrion just to name the big ones

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                    #24
                    If TFP put something as lame and annoying in the game as food spoiling, I am going to blame the OP as I ragequut.

                    They have said they will place food usage somewhere between where it is now and where it was last build. Sounds good to me.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Katitof View Post
                      What other games?
                      The one game with food spoilage I know is Don't Starve and you can "refresh" old food by stacking fresh one on it.
                      Ark has food spoilage as does Hold Your Own and Subsistence. Mist too i believe. So basically ALL survival games BUT this one has it.

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      Originally posted by Ghostlight View Post
                      If TFP put something as lame and annoying in the game as food spoiling, I am going to blame the OP as I ragequut.

                      They have said they will place food usage somewhere between where it is now and where it was last build. Sounds good to me.
                      And THAT is why we will NEVER see it. Well we may SEE it in an experimental but trust me it will NEVER go to any stable release. EVER.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Kalarro View Post
                        DIsagree. I dont think that food and water needs to be balanced for early+late.
                        Its fine that food and water are only a problem at the start. Later, we should have more important concerns, like improving our base, defending and finding good items.
                        We still need to eat ofc, but its fine if we have a big food stash, we arent the weaklings of the start of the game, we have more important things to do.
                        I completely agree. Once again, A16 got it MUCH better than this crap. Because in A16 the type of food you ate MATTERED. This was massively important. Meat Stew was the best food in the game because the wellness boost was superior than eating any equivalent amount of other foods, and it healed up a huge amount.

                        This automatically balanced late and early game food quite nicely, since early game you were eating ANYTHING just to not die. While late game you were cultivating crops and specifically going out your way to make the best food available in the game, so food did not become irrelevant.

                        But with the game becoming super-casual as it has in A17, they made all food equal. What a FUMBLE. You have to lol at the total lack of foresight. It doesn't matter a damn what you eat in A17 as long as it's enough. They created this problem themselves, once again through poor design choices, dumbing down the game, or lack of playtesting (pick one).

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                          #27
                          No. Just no. Can you imagine how much harder it would be in late game to repair/upgrade your base and replenish your weapon/ammo stock if you're also still having to hunt for new food every week and be unable to draw on previous weeks' surplus? It makes sense that food becomes less of a concern as time goes on, as you've had time to adapt to the new world.

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                            #28
                            The game does not need food spoilage. Did A16 need spoilage? No, because it had decent mechanics wove about food usage.

                            You guys are only now talking about adding something as unfun as food spoilage BECAUSE the mechanics in A17 surrounding food and stamina are STUPID and VERY VERY POORLY DESIGNED.

                            Fix the core issue, I say, don't add another crap unfun mechanic like a bandage on top of it. It's festering!

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                              #29
                              Even The Forest has a very rudimentary food spoilage system. Very simplistic. It's not a bad thing.

                              (FYI: those that play The Forest, if you have dried meat on your rack that turned black and would only give you roughly a 30% fill, just pick it up and put it in your inventory. It makes it so it's just normal dried meat again lol. Atleast it used to be that way unless the new patch corrected that.)

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                                #30
                                It doesn't mean the difficulty would increase a lot (need a good balance), it would just add some depth to the survival part of the game.

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