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    Well...we’ll have to agree to disagree then. I don’t know how anyone could read that post and not surmise that he was very much lamenting that he didn’t have the named articles by Day 65 and was wishing he could craft them earlier than that long into the game. It’s plain to me but to you it is not and so I must have some motive (spin doctoring) or I’m stupid (skimming without understanding) to not see it as you do.

    Only pApA can truthfully comment on what he was meaning so we’ll leave it there.

    In my view the problem as it stands is that high quality high tier loot is still much too easily obtained. I hope TFP is serious about moving towards parts and broken gear in most common places so that players do have a chance to craft things before they are found and when they finally do find something made of steel and with 4 mod slots it is a special moment.
    Last edited by Roland; 12-07-2019, 11:00 AM.

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      I simply donīt like luckbased gameplay. I didnīt wish i had them on this exact day. Itīs a frustrating mechanics. I donīt need it easily available, but i want to know that i can work towards something without beeing dependent on the mercy of RNGesus. What is the point of this mechanic? What was it that TFP is expecting the player to feel with this change? What are they trying to achieve with this?
      Last edited by pApA^LeGBa; 12-07-2019, 12:23 PM.

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        Originally posted by pApA^LeGBa View Post
        I simply donīt like luckbased gameplay. I didnīt wish i had them on this exact day. Itīs a frustrating mechanics. I donīt need it easily available, but i want to know that i can work towards something without beeing dependent on the mercy of RNGesus. What is the point of this mechanic? What was it that TFP is expecting the player to feel with this change? What are they trying to achieve with this?
        I like it imho.

        T5 is perfectly fine, even in late game stages, but finding that elusive T6 is a nice "oh nice!" moment. None of my playthroughs on A18 netted me T6 variants of every tool/weapon I used, but they all got me some, and it added to the individual flavour of each playthrough.

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          You're reading into what he's saying because of your view about loot. He doesn't talk about how fast or slow he wants to acquire loot. Or wanting some guarantee that that specific loot will be available by a set day. That's context you're putting into what he says that's not present otherwise. But we could always ask him. I'm 100% he's talking about luck based loot versus crafting skill based progression systems broadly. Hell he explicitly called out casino loot in his last post.

          Originally posted by Roland View Post
          In my view the problem as it stands is that high quality high tier loot is still much too easily obtained. I hope TFP is serious about moving towards parts and broken gear in most common places so that players do have a chance to craft things before they are found and when they finally do find something made of steel and with 4 mod slots it is a special moment.
          You're speaking to the issue of how much loot whereas my opinion and the commentary that started this was speaking about how that loot is acquired. There are a variety of systems I'd be happy with as long as the power progression arc is meaningful. Right now it doesn't feel meaningful at all. And if we started talking details about how much loot I don't know if I'd see a problem with your particular vision of how loot should work. I just don't want to open a chest at the end of a tier 5 mission and get a random 6 steel spear. Then turn that mission in and get a 6 military chest. Over and over and over and over again. All the while I'm using a bat and heavy armor. I want some way to work towards the thing I want for the build I'm trying beyond simply 'get lucky after running a a tier 5 a day'. Or I don't want to go 30+ hours and never see a crucible and then find one 10 minutes in my next game. Or I want to craft armor when I actually need it as an upgrade, including the work of finding/making the parts as needed. I want to not have a box full of steel parts for things I'll never use and can't do anything meaningful with. I actually want a progression system. What we have right now is not one at all. Hell, I'd be fine if they just flat out removed all tier 6 gear in the game. I'd rather that than what we have now.

          Comment


            Originally posted by pApA^LeGBa View Post
            I simply donīt like luckbased gameplay. I didnīt wish i had them on this exact day. Itīs a frustrating mechanics. I donīt need it easily available, but i want to know that i can work towards something without beeing dependent on the mercy of RNGesus. What is the point of this mechanic? What was it that TFP is expecting the player to feel with this change? What are they trying to achieve with this?
            Maybe you will get a better feel for it when tier6 items are no longer tier6 but "legendary" items. You probably still won't like it, but in typical RPGs you can't craft and seldom buy legendary items, they are the stuff you find deep down in dungeons. Those are the items you get for heroic deeds, not because you farmed items until you had enough to build them

            Yes. the game theoretically could also be the other way round, crafting as the principal way to get your gear. A16 worked like that, in co-op I was fully equipped with crafted gear for most of the time, looted gear had some importance for the first 2-3 weeks. And I really didn't like that looting was nothing more than resource-gathering. It mostly wasn't important what I found (except in the case of books), it was just resources. If you liked A16 that is fine, but you liked something that was shafting players who liked the scavenging/RNG based gameplay.

            A solution to the dilemma would be that some stuff is the domain of crafting and some stuff of scavenging.

            TFP seemed to be going this way with A18.0: Player equipment is predominantly the domain of scavenging/RNG, mass produced items for building are the domain of crafting. In my currrent single player game I generally don't find traps, electrical items or doors/hatches. I can only buy small quantities of that stuff if at all (though basic building materials can be found/bought), they mostly have to be crafted, especially in the quantities one normally needs for a horde base defense.

            And (after protests from crafters) A18.2 has now a shared domain of weapons and mods until q5 while q6 (which probably will be replaced with legendary items next year) is still scavenge-only and higher-grade building stuff is still crafting only (not directly exclusive but exclusive in the quantities you need).
            Last edited by meganoth; 12-07-2019, 02:06 PM.

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              Originally posted by pApA^LeGBa View Post
              I simply donīt like luckbased gameplay. I didnīt wish i had them on this exact day. Itīs a frustrating mechanics. I donīt need it easily available, but i want to know that i can work towards something without beeing dependent on the mercy of RNGesus. What is the point of this mechanic? What was it that TFP is expecting the player to feel with this change? What are they trying to achieve with this?
              Its not MMO raiding loot game, where you go into dungeon and expect to find certain something.

              Its survival game, where you take what you're given.

              If you have problem with that, play creative and spawn whatever you need or don't play survival games?

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                Read again @Katitof I donīt need it easily available. I want to work for it. Donīt care how long. I just donīt wanna have to rely on RNG. It honestly the most stupid form of gameplay in a survival game.

                If it has no purpose take it out. What is this game: A loot shooter or a survival game?

                Letīs assume this is a loot shooter. It should have a purpose other then going "oh nice" when you find it.
                Last edited by pApA^LeGBa; 12-07-2019, 03:11 PM.

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                  Never fear, I did exactly what I said I would do. I made a mod that enables you to craft Tier 6 items once you have the associated perk at level 5.

                  It's now available here.

                  https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/627

                  So now you have the option to craft them as it should be, or not. I believe in giving players options.

                  Feel free to endorse my mod if you like it, I don't get paid for these mods so a thank you is always nice
                  A big Thanks to Malacay2k11 for helping me track down the proper code.
                  Last edited by Zagan; 12-07-2019, 07:08 PM.

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                    Originally posted by Roland View Post
                    In my view the problem as it stands is that high quality high tier loot is still much too easily obtained. I hope TFP is serious about moving towards parts and broken gear in most common places so that players do have a chance to craft things before they are found and when they finally do find something made of steel and with 4 mod slots it is a special moment.
                    This is what I want to see. Everyone can specialize in their armor type and be able to craft em, so it won't be forcing people down a path once they find a lot of parts. In all reality, this is the bigger issue. Almost no point in crafting armor due to finding it all anyway

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                      Originally posted by Jugginator View Post
                      This is what I want to see. Everyone can specialize in their armor type and be able to craft em, so it won't be forcing people down a path once they find a lot of parts. In all reality, this is the bigger issue. Almost no point in crafting armor due to finding it all anyway
                      That I can definitely agree with, most of my T5 items were found not crafted, and having found a T5 for a particular item, parts for it became vendor fodder, since T6 is uncraftable. T5 should be what people work towards crafting, T6 should be the super rare, "oh wow!" find.

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                        Originally posted by OzHawkeye View Post
                        That I can definitely agree with, most of my T5 items were found not crafted, and having found a T5 for a particular item, parts for it became vendor fodder, since T6 is uncraftable. T5 should be what people work towards crafting, T6 should be the super rare, "oh wow!" find.
                        Too true. I'd say removing like 90% of the looted T1-5 armor and replacing those loots with parts will be great. Every playthough I've saved armor parts thinking oneday I'd craft some armor... but normally it's just one piece I was missing, or I found all the good armor I needed, and those parts just sat in a box anyway. Unless I crafted some to sell or just sold the parts.

                        Normally it's "yay only 8 more parts to go" and when I finally get the parts, it's "Oh boy... more armor parts... yay... already have the armor and it's good enough... glad I got enough by day 50..."

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                          I can see TFPs decision to place certain weapons in certain tiers. It makes sense.
                          It starts to not make sense that you find schematics to craft garbage weapons that you have not perked into.

                          You don’t want to take away the ability for everyone to craft whatever they want to craft, but at the same time you want people with specialized perks to be able to craft amazing things within those tiers.

                          I think the only solution without disrupting the structure of everything is that once you craft that crappy item, there is some way to upgrade it. Maybe even tie what and how much something can be upgraded to based on the other tiers you have perked into.

                          For instance, let’s say you have perked into agility and can craft some really good blades. You found a schematic for a pistol but you can only craft tier 1 pistols. Well, we know you are perked into agility. So upgrading raises the chance of getting higher rate of fire. Maybe you also have some points in strength, so upgrading the tier 1 pistol raises the chance a little for an increase in durability. Points in INT too? Chance for more mod slots. Fortitude -> handling. Etc etc

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                            Well in A16.4 they had it where the workbench could combine items of lesser quality to make higher quality items. You could get the higher quality items, but it cost you a lot of less quality items. You also had to have your crafting skills up to get the higher quality items. Gee I miss that system, don't know why they took it out. Seemed like a good way to do it to me. You also had to do some skill book hunting to get the skills needed and you had to get your level up to be able to use them. With all of the work it made it into a challenge, yet something to strive for. You couldn't craft any tier 600 stuff until you got to about level 120.

                            Now they took away all the quality 1-600 and you just got 1-6 and all the clothing, engines, and other stuff doesn't even have a quality or tier. That is sad really because you just don't have half the stuff to craft and try to upgrade like you did before. It has all been dumbed down to the point that it's just boring now.
                            Last edited by Zagan; 12-07-2019, 11:43 PM.

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                              Originally posted by pApA^LeGBa View Post
                              Read again @Katitof I donīt need it easily available. I want to work for it. Donīt care how long. I just donīt wanna have to rely on RNG. It honestly the most stupid form of gameplay in a survival game.

                              If it has no purpose take it out. What is this game: A loot shooter or a survival game?

                              Letīs assume this is a loot shooter. It should have a purpose other then going "oh nice" when you find it.
                              Dont most survival games all have some elements of RNG?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
                                Correction...
                                I think the best way would be if all sides got some love.
                                Some of the best items you can only loot... AND some of the best items you can only craft... AND some of the best items you can only buy.

                                Now combine all of this together where it becomes an ultimate trifecta quest to obtain a special item from each in order to do something extra special. What these items might be and what that special activity might be is left to imagination.
                                This pls^
                                If you can't get what you want a certain way, then work towards getting it the alternative way.

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