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Another "direction of the game thread" and iam concerned...


ThanVanMon

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Hello all and hello Pimps!

 

I wanna start out by saying that i love this game and that is also the reason why i decided to write this post. Alpha 18 had me thinking about the direction of the game a bit so i wrote a post on steam starting out like this followed by discussions...

 

"I miss the roaming zombies, random hordes and normal houses.

I been playing 7DTD for a few years and 9 diff Alphas. I been trying out the new release of alpha 18 a bit and i really like how the world developed overall. Great job on the development devs!

On specific terms however iam having a hard time enjoying the "dungeons" and sleeper zombies.

A big aspect of the game dissapeared personally when it went from roaming zeds and hordes to almost just sleepers. I miss cleaning out a block from zombies to be able to enter a normal house and not a dungeon. Will that ever come back? As i recall alpha 15 was great on that aspect!!"

 

Iam currently on day 55 and i barely see any roaming zombies at all, all there is, is the hordes on every 7th day. Takes some bullets to kill yes! Hard, only because of fps drop to 15-20, nothing else. Hard to spot, nope, they even glow nowadays...but why and from what? How are they radiated?

 

I am currently playing Alpha 18.1 latest experimental and it really has me worried. It all changed a few aplhas ago from us players beeing kept busy all the time from roaming zeds to sleeper zombies instead, even smell sensor was removed. Me personally dont like it at all. I liked "the walking dead" feeling it had where we couldnt have food in the backpack, make noises or have the fire going at night cause they would smell you down and cause havoc. I liked how we were penalized for using guns instead of bow and arrow, now a silencer wont make a difference, ok, wake up a few zeds, so what?.

I liked how it was a struggle and all free for us to do as we liked and prefered before. Now we are instead lead by our choices in skillpts and EXP-pts. Does it come to us, only every 7th day.other than that we have to go find it!. We are not disturbed anymore, we are the disturbers in hunt of EXP-pts and loot.

 

I liked how it was "realistic" and had more logic to it before, where we looted tools in toolshops, weapons mostly in messiahs and food in the stores primarily. Ppls were in apocalyptic distress and left some stuff behind right? Now it makes no sense. All houses are suddenly dungeons (wellmade though) obviously created by the masterminds who lived in it?! Sleeperzombies are so smart they hide in the weirdest of places and even build themselves in!?...and in the end we come to the final room/area where the dungeonloot is, there is just no logic to it. Can be all from weapons etc to food and water. Every house contains the old shops combined and every house is/can be a goldmine.

 

Me and my friend who i played this game with for a long time discussed a bit. None of us feel the need of building our own base anymore, whats the point? There is also so many diff gears and things we used to strive for to have or make that was needed, like steel, iron, concrete etc. No need anymore. Food, weapons, armor, all you need is found pretty easy in buildings. Only thing i really needed was the motorcycle for space and transport, thats about it.

 

Conclusion is, i personally think the devs played the game before, i dont think they do much anymore. The turn the game of almost perfection created by the Pimps small team has taken leads me to almost think there is a new developmentgroup in charge?. You have created a wonderful world in a zombieapocalyptic era...but with less and less zombies and less challenge and feel of gameplay compared to before. Maybe my downfall is that i played to many Alphas?

 

Best regards

 

ThanVanMon

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I am currently enjoying Alpha 18 but I do agree with several of the points you made, especially in regards to roaming zombies. I remember when I used to find a town and there would be hordes of zombies wandering the streets and I'd go clear out a bunch so I could loot some houses and then they'd smell me and wander in to find me. Another awesome thing was when it was the middle of the night and you're hiding in the attic of some house or the loft of a barn early on and all of a sudden a horde comes through that may or may not know if you're there. Now it seems to me that 80% of zombies are sleepers inside the pois that are all suddenly dungeons and besides the occasional zombies out and about plus the very rare (and small) hordes that come through it takes some of the fun out of exploring. I believe that if pois went back to being just normal houses for the most part and you took the sleepers from them and made them into wandering zombies out in the world it would help the overall atmosphere of the game alot in my opinion.

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What difficulty and gamestage are you all on? Tbh, I've seen progressively more and more wandering zombies the higher my gamestage goes - up to the point where I drive around and can't go a couple seconds without running into a few or a wandering pack. I still think it should be a bit more, perhaps earlier than what it has been anyway. Honestly, on the harder difficulties and horde night spawn counts I don't think you'd fare too well without a base, unless you spend a lot of time repairing POIs.

 

I really feel you about sleepers. Tbh I don't like them at all, aside from maybe a few of them here and there for scares - that's always refreshing to have a jump scare time to time. But there really are just too many sleepers, although they reduced them, I think just having a lot inside there along sleepers here and there in surprise parts would make it more fun. All sleepers... meh. I'd prefer a "trigger spawn" of a random horde kinda like the supplies quests do to send some zombies into/around the POI you're in.

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I think that A18 is the best alpha to date and that they *are* moving in the right direction. The game is enjoyable for SP. I cannot say much for MP as it's been a while since I've joined a MP game.

 

Agree that the roaming zombies are very lacking in this version though. There isn't much of a threat at night time unless 1) it's early game and you're on the harder difficulty settings or 2) you get the roaming horde when you're out at night. They do need to add more zombies in the world in general outside of the POIs. Perhaps the higher the difficulty settings the more zombies there are wandering the streets and faster repops.

 

The number of sleeper/hidden zombies are fine now compare to before. They've also reduced the number of dungeon house which is also a good change. I mean not all houses can have dungeons, right? Finding loot in houses is normal, however I do agree that there should be less final/super containers. I think the reason they added those was to allow trader quests.

 

Eventually you have to build some kind of base or fortify an existing POI for horde night. I'm not talking about early game here, I'm talking about mid to late game where you get lots of radiated and demolishers. Well unless you're the type to just attack them right out in the open guns blazing. In that case all you have to do is get a lot of ammo.

 

The only thing I'd like to add is the amount of experience required to get from one level to the next level should be looked at/balanced. I'm talking about at the higher levels. I get it, TFP doesn't want you to reach max level too soon. However, if people want that goal of reaching max level, let them. Don't make it too far out of reach.

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What difficulty and gamestage are you all on? Tbh, I've seen progressively more and more wandering zombies the higher my gamestage goes - up to the point where I drive around and can't go a couple seconds without running into a few or a wandering pack. I still think it should be a bit more, perhaps earlier than what it has been anyway. Honestly, on the harder difficulties and horde night spawn counts I don't think you'd fare too well without a base, unless you spend a lot of time repairing POIs.

 

I really feel you about sleepers. Tbh I don't like them at all, aside from maybe a few of them here and there for scares - that's always refreshing to have a jump scare time to time. But there really are just too many sleepers, although they reduced them, I think just having a lot inside there along sleepers here and there in surprise parts would make it more fun. All sleepers... meh. I'd prefer a "trigger spawn" of a random horde kinda like the supplies quests do to send some zombies into/around the POI you're in.

 

I haven't gotten to a high gamestage this playthrough, so maybe that is why the world seems empty. I think if there was some end game content (like world bosses, or runner hordes in dangerous hub cities), then TFP would not need to rely so much on gamestage to keep people playing.

 

One thing I am super happy about is how much less zombies are stuffed into cupboards and crawl spaces compared to A17. I think TFP really listened on that point which makes me optimistic that they might also listen to the requests for end game content and more roaming zombies.

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I agree. While each recent alpha introduces awesome new stuff, the direction of the game isnt quite to my likeing.

I also prefer romaing zombies to sleepers, normal POIs to dungeons, more emphasis on building and crafting, and so on. They are aiming for a more combat looter shooter game now, and I dont like that (I love looter shooters, but 7d2d cant compete with the good ones, while its the best building and crafting survival)

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I haven't gotten to a high gamestage this playthrough, so maybe that is why the world seems empty. I think if there was some end game content (like world bosses, or runner hordes in dangerous hub cities), then TFP would not need to rely so much on gamestage to keep people playing.

 

One thing I am super happy about is how much less zombies are stuffed into cupboards and crawl spaces compared to A17. I think TFP really listened on that point which makes me optimistic that they might also listen to the requests for end game content and more roaming zombies.

 

Yeah i'm being seriouswhen I say I believe it's tied to gamestage, at 300+ I was seeing tons everywhere. But I do feel you they should up it earlier, it wasn't untill about GS 190+ when I started seeing more. GS ~50 or day 7+ I think is nice.

 

Yeah, the jump-scare zombies in A17 being in every single cupboard/closet was scary at first, then it was "Oh there's another one *poke* and anothe..and ano.. ano... another one.. another one ^3". Much more fun and scary when you expect it, then dont see it then get one lol. One of the devs for Half Life 1 said something about that with headcrabs in vents. "You see one and another, then you expect it every time. Then you don't find one, and don't find one again and forget about it. Then you drop 5 headcrabs out of a duct on top of the player and they get scared again" -- something like that. Been years since I read that lol.

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Yeah, the jump-scare zombies in A17 being in every single cupboard/closet was scary at first, then it was "Oh there's another one *poke* and anothe..and ano.. ano... another one.. another one ^3". Much more fun and scary when you expect it, then dont see it then get one lol. One of the devs for Half Life 1 said something about that with headcrabs in vents. "You see one and another, then you expect it every time. Then you don't find one, and don't find one again and forget about it. Then you drop 5 headcrabs out of a duct on top of the player and they get scared again" -- something like that. Been years since I read that lol.

 

Man, it's such a bummer. When sleepers were first announced, everybody assumed they would be mixed in with normal, active zeds and actual dead bodies, to keep the player guessing about what to expect.

 

Now you just move from sleeper cell to sleeper cell and pick them off (often while they're not even awake yet) before collecting your loot. The only surprises come when you're in a POI you haven't seen before and the floor gives away, but even that feels more like a one off cheap shot than a structural challenge.

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Personally I see wandering hordes quite often in later game stages. I do however agree that night is not scary enough. It should be terifying. Default gamma should be lower best should prowl the night, more feral zombies come out, death around every corner. Bigger incentives for proper base would be cool.

 

I also miss the wandering zeds in towns and cities. You get few of them there, which is not much. Towns feel empty and ways too safe. Its a bit immersion breaking. Would be nice if they relocated some sleeper to outside of PoI, so there are some in the streets and have larger wake up radius.

 

However I believe devs play the game, at least Madmole seems to.

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I agree. While each recent alpha introduces awesome new stuff, the direction of the game isnt quite to my likeing.

I also prefer romaing zombies to sleepers, normal POIs to dungeons, more emphasis on building and crafting, and so on. They are aiming for a more combat looter shooter game now, and I dont like that (I love looter shooters, but 7d2d cant compete with the good ones, while its the best building and crafting survival)

 

It has gone from a hardcore survival game to an RPG with som survival elements over the years.

We are on day 58 in my save, iamt at gamestage 163 and my friend 180 i think.

The reason why i dont think they play the game like we do is cause this game gets so boosted by the different mods. The modders ads in what they believe is missing. For example Starvation mod, my personal fav. Them are the boys Funpimps should approach and get feedback from. Man they were creative and skilled. They also created a beatiful game within the game for free! If you hear me Starvation team, its time to come back into the light!:)

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Personally I see wandering hordes quite often in later game stages. I do however agree that night is not scary enough. It should be terifying. Default gamma should be lower best should prowl the night, more feral zombies come out, death around every corner. Bigger incentives for proper base would be cool.

 

I also miss the wandering zeds in towns and cities. You get few of them there, which is not much. Towns feel empty and ways too safe. Its a bit immersion breaking. Would be nice if they relocated some sleeper to outside of PoI, so there are some in the streets and have larger wake up radius.

 

However I believe devs play the game, at least Madmole seems to.

 

If they only could ad zombiesettings in the options. There should be a slider or setting for zombieamount on everyday basis too, not just bloodmoon. As for now we can set if they should be harder or not to kill. Thats not making something harder, just takes more time. And since most are sleepers inside buildings, why have a sniperrifle?, why use melee? They neutralized so many ways of playing the game cause basegame does not allow me to freely choose.

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If they only could ad zombiesettings in the options. There should be a slider or setting for zombieamount on everyday basis too, not just bloodmoon. As for now we can set if they should be harder or not to kill. Thats not making something harder, just takes more time. And since most are sleepers inside buildings, why have a sniperrifle?, why use melee? They neutralized so many ways of playing the game cause basegame does not allow me to freely choose.

 

Editing the XML's to provide for more zombies was pretty easy, and I've certainly noticed a difference since doing that.

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I agree with just about everything you said OP. Everyone in my household used to play this game religiously because of all those things the game used to have, but now no one wants to play it because of all the changes. We just can't play it anymore.

 

The excessive dungeons with sleepers, the lack of walking dead in cities and towns, the focus on pure guns since noise doesn't even seem to affect anything unless they are right next to you, there's way too much loot gold mines, the crafting is not as fun, the zombies don't act like zombies..

 

There is so much awesome stuff in the game and it has lots of potential. But, they took out a lot of the core things that originally drew me into the game and no amount of cool toys to play with is going to keep my attention like the original survival aspects did.

 

My favorite parts of 7DTD were the feeling of being rushed to get everything together before each day 7 - and when you start you're struggling to even find a cooking pot (this was long ago, even in A15 - they had cooking pots at every tent site) you had to clear towns in order to even get in the building, and you might get unlucky and find nothing of use in the POI (now POIs are swimming in loot) - shooting a gun or carrying raw meat could get you in trouble (Now you can run through POIs full auto like playing quake) The wasteland was nearly impossible to get into until you got the gear (it was completely saturated with dogs, cops and very dangerous - it was kind of an end-game area to get to and a goal) -

 

The building felt much more realistic and immersive back then (for example when you made the rebar, you put the osb around it, then poured the concrete into the rebar, and if you wanted to rebuild with another material class, you had to tear out that section so it forced to you to plan ahead) now you just use the magic nail-gun and automatically upgrade from wood all the way to steel. You can pretty much go straight to cobblestone on your first base now, all other material types are essentially useless. Before, you could start with a wood structure and be ok for a bit, and then you'd either build around or modify it with better materials. At one point, they even had mud huts as a viable night-time structure that you could throw up at night as a quick early non-7-day outpost to hold up in.

 

The worlds used to be infiniteֿֿ¹ in size. While some may think worlds that big are just useless, I had a lot of fun in the big worlds in coop because we could be literal in-game days travel apart which was just a cool aspect of the game. The biomes were huge and you could get lost in them. There were more types of biomes to play in.

 

A lot of things made more immersive sense - i.e didn't take 5 pieces of raw meat before you could actually eat it. You couldn't just put a vehicle in your pocket and spit it out and jump in anytime you got in trouble - you had to be mindful about where you placed it so that you could get to it in the event you got int trouble such as when a dog horde showed up. Now if you're stuck on a roof - just drive off it.

 

Mining was more meaningful and necessary. I know a lot of people hated mining..but now there's virtually no need to mine much at all. You can get plenty from the surface and from all the loot you scrap - any deficits in material can now just be had from the trader anyway.

 

So many things that have pushed me away from what was once one of the most fun and addicting games I've ever played.

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What difficulty and gamestage are you all on? Tbh, I've seen progressively more and more wandering zombies the higher my gamestage goes - up to the point where I drive around and can't go a couple seconds without running into a few or a wandering pack.

 

To the best of my knowledge, gamestage does not affect wandering zombie numbers, and as for wandering hordes, you get 2 per day and their contents are random, not GS-based (and pathetic to boot). Also, it is very easy to never encounter them as they spawn near the player and wander in his general direction. So a mobile player can easily miss them.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Agree that the roaming zombies are very lacking in this version though. There isn't much of a threat at night time unless 1) it's early game and you're on the harder difficulty settings or 2) you get the roaming horde when you're out at night. They do need to add more zombies in the world in general outside of the POIs.

 

This is the first alpha where we have simply ignored nightfall. If out looting or exploring or whatever we just keep going. Night is no threat now. The days of finding a house to hole up (outside day 1 or day 2) or returning to your base to pass the night in safety are LONG GONE. It's a crying shame.

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Yeah i'm being seriouswhen I say I believe it's tied to gamestage, at 300+ I was seeing tons everywhere. But I do feel you they should up it earlier, it wasn't untill about GS 190+ when I started seeing more. GS ~50 or day 7+ I think is nice.

 

In my co-op (2-player game) our gamestage is 450 and there are still no zombies in the world, still 2 wandering hordes per day (still of pathetic size), and we still completely ignore nightfall and just go about our business with no danger or sense of danger.

 

p.s. Our horde night is monstrous as GS 450, and extremely challenging, I will give them that. But 5 in-game hours of fun in every in-game week is garbage.

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This is the first alpha where we have simply ignored nightfall. If out looting or exploring or whatever we just keep going. Night is no threat now. The days of finding a house to hole up (outside day 1 or day 2) or returning to your base to pass the night in safety are LONG GONE. It's a crying shame.

 

If you think about it, the zombies at night are easier to deal with than the sleepers in the POIs once you have even a moderate gamestage. I'm so used to dealing with radiated boss zombies in the cramped POIs that the zombies in the wide-open outdoors at night (what few there are) are like mosquitoes. I loot day or night as well - it's not like the POI zombies are gonna be any harder at night either, and walking outside from house to house even at night is the easiest part - a cakewalk.

 

Anyone can try this - go into the middle of a wasteland city at night and take a gun and jump up and down and shoot - you'll attract hardly anything. In early alphas - you'd get destroyed doing that.

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I agree with just about everything you said OP. Everyone in my household used to play this game religiously because of all those things the game used to have, but now no one wants to play it because of all the changes. We just can't play it anymore.

 

The excessive dungeons with sleepers, the lack of walking dead in cities and towns, the focus on pure guns since noise doesn't even seem to affect anything unless they are right next to you, there's way too much loot gold mines, the crafting is not as fun, the zombies don't act like zombies..

 

There is so much awesome stuff in the game and it has lots of potential. But, they took out a lot of the core things that originally drew me into the game and no amount of cool toys to play with is going to keep my attention like the original survival aspects did.

 

My favorite parts of 7DTD were the feeling of being rushed to get everything together before each day 7 - and when you start you're struggling to even find a cooking pot (this was long ago, even in A15 - they had cooking pots at every tent site) you had to clear towns in order to even get in the building, and you might get unlucky and find nothing of use in the POI (now POIs are swimming in loot) - shooting a gun or carrying raw meat could get you in trouble (Now you can run through POIs full auto like playing quake) The wasteland was nearly impossible to get into until you got the gear (it was completely saturated with dogs, cops and very dangerous - it was kind of an end-game area to get to and a goal) -

 

The building felt much more realistic and immersive back then (for example when you made the rebar, you put the osb around it, then poured the concrete into the rebar, and if you wanted to rebuild with another material class, you had to tear out that section so it forced to you to plan ahead) now you just use the magic nail-gun and automatically upgrade from wood all the way to steel. You can pretty much go straight to cobblestone on your first base now, all other material types are essentially useless. Before, you could start with a wood structure and be ok for a bit, and then you'd either build around or modify it with better materials. At one point, they even had mud huts as a viable night-time structure that you could throw up at night as a quick early non-7-day outpost to hold up in.

 

The worlds used to be infiniteֿֿ¹ in size. While some may think worlds that big are just useless, I had a lot of fun in the big worlds in coop because we could be literal in-game days travel apart which was just a cool aspect of the game. The biomes were huge and you could get lost in them. There were more types of biomes to play in.

 

A lot of things made more immersive sense - i.e didn't take 5 pieces of raw meat before you could actually eat it. You couldn't just put a vehicle in your pocket and spit it out and jump in anytime you got in trouble - you had to be mindful about where you placed it so that you could get to it in the event you got int trouble such as when a dog horde showed up. Now if you're stuck on a roof - just drive off it.

 

Mining was more meaningful and necessary. I know a lot of people hated mining..but now there's virtually no need to mine much at all. You can get plenty from the surface and from all the loot you scrap - any deficits in material can now just be had from the trader anyway.

 

So many things that have pushed me away from what was once one of the most fun and addicting games I've ever played.

 

I agree on the "too much emphasis on sleepers and too little on roamers". For the rest though, I think no matter how the game went you'd never get that early itch back.

You going straight through cobblestone is mostly you knowing better than back in the days when you thought wood was the early game goto, followed by iron etc.

Mining is more necessary than ever, have you even crafted anything yet ? Iron bars are crazy expensive and iron is overall needed for a TON of stuff. You need more bullets & gas than ever, so I gotta say I don't see how you just "farm the top of the ore veins" and be done with it.

As far as loot goes, you can just turn down loot abundancy. And well... not feeling rushed before the 7 days hordes... try going back to 50 min days like it used to be and tell me how much free time you have before the next horde arrives... honestly I feel pressured with 60 min days between looting, mining, visiting traders, doing quests, cooking food, building my base, planning out my progression, etc etc.

 

I agree some things were "lost". Mostly LBD that felt like true organic progression even though it was far from perfect; gun "assembly" through real parts; that being said the game has never been in a better state IMO, and the truth is that it will never feel as it used to because we know the game too well.

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I was also completely against the nerfing of zombies inside POIs. Looting is also a total joke now and no threat whatsoever. So let's see what we now have to work with:

 

a) No zombies in the world worth mentioning.

b) The same 2 wandering hordes of patheticness per day as always

c) POIs with about half as many sleepers as they used to contain making looting completely safe even in huge POIs

 

Getting close to being a walking simulator with every alpha.

 

Here's a damning fact....I use exclusively melee weapons outside horde night to conserve ammo. On the first week of play I found a baseball bat which I love. I have used it as my only melee weapon since that first week. It is now day 40, Warrior difficulty.

 

I haven't had to repair it yet.

 

How crap is that?

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I agree with just about everything you said OP. Everyone in my household used to play this game religiously because of all those things the game used to have, but now no one wants to play it because of all the changes. We just can't play it anymore.

 

The excessive dungeons with sleepers, the lack of walking dead in cities and towns, the focus on pure guns since noise doesn't even seem to affect anything unless they are right next to you, there's way too much loot gold mines, the crafting is not as fun, the zombies don't act like zombies..

 

There is so much awesome stuff in the game and it has lots of potential. But, they took out a lot of the core things that originally drew me into the game and no amount of cool toys to play with is going to keep my attention like the original survival aspects did.

 

My favorite parts of 7DTD were the feeling of being rushed to get everything together before each day 7 - and when you start you're struggling to even find a cooking pot (this was long ago, even in A15 - they had cooking pots at every tent site) you had to clear towns in order to even get in the building, and you might get unlucky and find nothing of use in the POI (now POIs are swimming in loot) - shooting a gun or carrying raw meat could get you in trouble (Now you can run through POIs full auto like playing quake) The wasteland was nearly impossible to get into until you got the gear (it was completely saturated with dogs, cops and very dangerous - it was kind of an end-game area to get to and a goal) -

 

The building felt much more realistic and immersive back then (for example when you made the rebar, you put the osb around it, then poured the concrete into the rebar, and if you wanted to rebuild with another material class, you had to tear out that section so it forced to you to plan ahead) now you just use the magic nail-gun and automatically upgrade from wood all the way to steel. You can pretty much go straight to cobblestone on your first base now, all other material types are essentially useless. Before, you could start with a wood structure and be ok for a bit, and then you'd either build around or modify it with better materials. At one point, they even had mud huts as a viable night-time structure that you could throw up at night as a quick early non-7-day outpost to hold up in.

 

The worlds used to be infiniteֿֿ¹ in size. While some may think worlds that big are just useless, I had a lot of fun in the big worlds in coop because we could be literal in-game days travel apart which was just a cool aspect of the game. The biomes were huge and you could get lost in them. There were more types of biomes to play in.

 

A lot of things made more immersive sense - i.e didn't take 5 pieces of raw meat before you could actually eat it. You couldn't just put a vehicle in your pocket and spit it out and jump in anytime you got in trouble - you had to be mindful about where you placed it so that you could get to it in the event you got int trouble such as when a dog horde showed up. Now if you're stuck on a roof - just drive off it.

 

Mining was more meaningful and necessary. I know a lot of people hated mining..but now there's virtually no need to mine much at all. You can get plenty from the surface and from all the loot you scrap - any deficits in material can now just be had from the trader anyway.

 

So many things that have pushed me away from what was once one of the most fun and addicting games I've ever played.

 

Like i have written it myself, agree to 100%. Its so sad cause the "old version" of this game is the most fun i´ve had in a game in more than a decade.

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I agree on the "too much emphasis on sleepers and too little on roamers". For the rest though, I think no matter how the game went you'd never get that early itch back.

You going straight through cobblestone is mostly you knowing better than back in the days when you thought wood was the early game goto, followed by iron etc.

Mining is more necessary than ever, have you even crafted anything yet ? Iron bars are crazy expensive and iron is overall needed for a TON of stuff. You need more bullets & gas than ever, so I gotta say I don't see how you just "farm the top of the ore veins" and be done with it.

As far as loot goes, you can just turn down loot abundancy. And well... not feeling rushed before the 7 days hordes... try going back to 50 min days like it used to be and tell me how much free time you have before the next horde arrives... honestly I feel pressured with 60 min days between looting, mining, visiting traders, doing quests, cooking food, building my base, planning out my progression, etc etc.

 

I agree some things were "lost". Mostly LBD that felt like true organic progression even though it was far from perfect; gun "assembly" through real parts; that being said the game has never been in a better state IMO, and the truth is that it will never feel as it used to because we know the game too well.

 

Weird cause i feel no pressure at all, there is fck all i "need" to do lol. I have to keep myself occupied to not just stand about, but nothing i really need to do:). I feel nothing is needed in this version more than run about a lil bit and loot. Gas is so easy to make, food is easy to get or make. Its the base design of the game more we are discussing, no settings can set the game to the core version. If its in your taste, grats and i envy you:).

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I was also completely against the nerfing of zombies inside POIs. Looting is also a total joke now and no threat whatsoever. So let's see what we now have to work with:

 

a) No zombies in the world worth mentioning.

b) The same 2 wandering hordes of patheticness per day as always

c) POIs with about half as many sleepers as they used to contain making looting completely safe even in huge POIs

 

Getting close to being a walking simulator with every alpha.

 

Here's a damning fact....I use exclusively melee weapons outside horde night to conserve ammo. On the first week of play I found a baseball bat which I love. I have used it as my only melee weapon since that first week. It is now day 40, Warrior difficulty.

 

I haven't had to repair it yet.

 

How crap is that?

 

That doesnt sound threathening at all haha

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Mining is more necessary than ever, have you even crafted anything yet ? Iron bars are crazy expensive and iron is overall needed for a TON of stuff. You need more bullets & gas than ever, so I gotta say I don't see how you just "farm the top of the ore veins" and be done with it.

 

Well playstyles may come into factor here. Doing quests over and over will really accumulate a lot of material and loot to sell. We know most of the quest POIs like the back of our hands, so can just go straight to the usual places for the quest item and we know exactly where the pile of jackpot is in each one. Playing Co-op vs Solo may also be a factor as well. I just remember having to mine lead like crazy back in the day, but you seem to get a lot more material now when mining that just one day of mining every in-game month or so is plenty when you have all the supplemental coming in to cushion it. And, I was talking about over the entire course of the alphas - A18 is an improvement over recent Alphas in some ways - but still behind some of the older Alphas in other ways. Essentially for me - A17 was the biggest misstep since the game came out, and A18 has somewhat recovered - but it's still not on the same path as it once was.

 

As far as fuel - like many other craftables, gas used to be more fun and meaningful to make (at least for someone who likes crafting like me) - I used to make dedicated corn fields to make grain alcohol for gas. I always used a lot for big building projects that involved using the auger. The crafting recipes for things were just a bit deeper and with that depth was more gameplay to go with it. I think I like the higher fuel-consumption now - but i'd prefer the original recipe to make it actually impactful.

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Well playstyles may come into factor here. Doing quests over and over will really accumulate a lot of material and loot to sell. We know most of the quest POIs like the back of our hands, so can just go straight to the usual places for the quest item and we know exactly where the pile of jackpot is in each one. Playing Co-op vs Solo may also be a factor as well.

 

So let me get this straight. You seem to know that questing is a little OP compared to just looting houses like in the old days, those very days you reminisce so much. Yet you keep doing it over and over again, and on top of that using nerdpoling / rushing to the end loot, and you wonder why you're swimming in loot and not enjoying the game much ?

 

It's like those A16 haters that got LBD squashed because they kept crying about how broken it was because all they ever did was spamcraft stone axes and it felt ♥♥♥♥. Well... don't do it ? You do realise this is not a competitive game and when you play your coop game no-one gives a jack about how you and your buddy play ? So do yourself a favor and play in the old fashioned way (try a no-trader playtrough, I've done those quite a bunch and it's my favourite playstyle) by looting stuff while cleaning the POI. Maybe it will bring back some lost glory to your games.

 

 

EDIT : In other news I totally agree with the fact cities should be a storm of zombies and hard to clear. I hate the fact that when I start a new game the most efficient way to play is to find the biggest city around the trader and setting up in the middle of it with nothing but a lvl 1 primitive bow.

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I was also completely against the nerfing of zombies inside POIs. Looting is also a total joke now and no threat whatsoever. So let's see what we now have to work with:

 

a) No zombies in the world worth mentioning.

b) The same 2 wandering hordes of patheticness per day as always

c) POIs with about half as many sleepers as they used to contain making looting completely safe even in huge POIs

 

Getting close to being a walking simulator with every alpha.

 

Here's a damning fact....I use exclusively melee weapons outside horde night to conserve ammo. On the first week of play I found a baseball bat which I love. I have used it as my only melee weapon since that first week. It is now day 40, Warrior difficulty.

 

I haven't had to repair it yet.

 

How crap is that?

 

I agree with this but you should also point the fact that you did progress as a player too. You know how to clean a POI efficiently, what to build and when, how to kill a zed without being hit, etc.

 

Even if I only started at A17 and it seems it was easier than previously. I died a lot for the first couple of hours; and it was the player more than the game. Now when moving around and seeing some wanderers (snow and desert mostly); either I walk by or I shoot them in the head from a safe and hidden distance -> OHKO.

 

Now I could use some more wanderers around during day and night time but even there, when you get 3 to 5 zeds in a close space in a POI without an easy escape path; could be a bit bloody.

 

Want more, could also edit some settings no ? (not sure here)

 

For the bat used during 40 days ? How many sleepers did you killed with it ? Like 20 total ?

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So let me get this straight. You seem to know that questing is a little OP compared to just looting houses like in the old days, those very days you reminisce so much. Yet you keep doing it over and over again, and on top of that using nerdpoling / rushing to the end loot, and you wonder why you're swimming in loot and not enjoying the game much ?

 

Well, kinda....

 

I like doing the quests as it's something to do in the game. I'm gonna loot anyway, so might as well do it on a quest. I'll generally do the most optimal things within the game like I would in real life with some exceptions - and one exception is your second point - I do not nerd-pole to the jackpot. But, I will sometimes just beeline through the dungeon straight towards that area and not loot much of the other rooms.

 

I personally can't pretend to not know where those things are. I guess I could stop doing quests. But, that's kinda the point. If something in the game is so unbalanced that I need to refrain from even using it - then I should speak up and say I don't like how it is and wish it were tweaked- instead of just not doing it and not saying anything about it. Right?..or no?

 

You do realise this is not a competitive game and when you play your coop game no-one gives a jack about how you and your buddy play ?

 

Of course I do - though I do get bragging rights against the wife or my brother on who has the least deaths or most kills - so I guess there is some competition there. :p

 

It's not about that - if you re-read what I wrote - I want the game more challenging - not less. If I were that type, I would be thankful for every gimmie the game gives you. I'm totally not ok with them. Most of the gimmies are reluctantly used as it's just the most efficient way to play.

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