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    #31
    Originally posted by quyxkh View Post
    I think your posts would be much fairer if you'd qualify those: ~the only time A18 is remotely challenging for a player who''s got thousands of hours of experience with the game~. Please stop whining about how easy it is. If you wish TFP would add challenges for people who've got the equivallent of a solid year's full-time professional experience at the game, say so. It's a legitimate request. Maybe just say it once or twice and then let it rest?
    I have news for you. If you wish the 1000 plus hour players to stop giving any type of feedback then this forum may as well be dead.

    Are you trying to say the only people allowed to stress their point of views are 100 hour players and below? Because that frame of mind is what tanked the fun in this game and brought us to a place where we need demolishers and artificial perks to present a challenge, whereas at LEAST his point was that in A16 there was a time where he felt overwhelmed and swarmed.

    You're tired of the veteran posts asking for difficulty. Fine. Im tired of the new player posts asking for things to be easier. What makes you right and him wrong?

    Comment


      #32
      experience

      that he dont have

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by quyxkh View Post
        I think your posts would be much fairer if you'd qualify those: ~the only time A18 is remotely challenging for a player who''s got thousands of hours of experience with the game~. Please stop whining about how easy it is. If you wish TFP would add challenges for people who've got the equivallent of a solid year's full-time professional experience at the game, say so. It's a legitimate request. Maybe just say it once or twice and then let it rest?
        So feedback from a player with 1000s of hours is not valid?

        Newsflash, I had 1000+ hours when I was playing A16 and it WAS challenging.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Ghostlight View Post
          So feedback from a player with 1000s of hours is not valid?

          Newsflash, I had 1000+ hours when I was playing A16 and it WAS challenging.
          ......Maybe just say it once or twice and then let it rest?.....
          I think thats more the point. You keep saying it over and over and over again in almost every thread you visit. Thats not feedback anymore, thats on the border of whining imo.

          Cheers

          Comment


            #35
            Why would I assume that the person I am responding to reads those other threads or even knows who I am?

            Originally posted by Prisma501 View Post
            whining
            Yes?

            Comment


              #36
              I wonder if anyone has noticed that all you guys ever do is argue so your post count goes up....

              However.... gamestage is not very well explained for newer players. Even players who have owned the game for some time may not completely understand the changes made for a18. Many of the older players still refer to everything by Gameday, after all. I know that the Journal explains it, somewhat, and the .xml file has a really good explanation, but, this is NOT bleeding out into genpop, and it's causing issues, even among the 'elderly' multi-thousand hour players. How about having a brainstorm about a way to EXPLAIN it to newer players from within the game rather than arguing inanely?! I have zero issue with the way it's calculated and find it very reasonable for a game that has both solo and MP capability, but that's because I've studied the .xml files and understand how it works. Most players do NOT do that.

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                #37
                Personally, I don't think it needs to be explained at all to anyone. It is supposed to be a hidden force. There is already too much information about it and that is part of the problem. It is our own fault if we seek out how exactly it works and then meta off of it and then wonder why it feels so souless.

                Not trying to be argumentative but.....post count +1

                Last edited by Roland; 01-26-2020, 03:22 AM.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Khissi View Post
                  I wonder if anyone has noticed that all you guys ever do is argue so your post count goes up....
                  I disagree with everyone and everything that has ever been said.....post count +1

                  :-P
                  Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 01-26-2020, 03:25 AM.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Roland View Post
                    Personally, I don't think it needs to be explained at all to anyone. It is supposed to be a hidden force. There is already too much information about it and that is part of the problem. It is our own fault if we seek out how exactly it works and then meta off of it and then wonder why it feels so shallow.

                    Not trying to be argumentative but.....post count +1

                    +2 on this topic.

                    I think this is the baseline of why some people cant just enjoy the game because you are not allowing yourself to enjoy it.

                    Meta Gaming is the worst thing to happen to gaming overall and this game in particular. People sit there with spreadsheets and charts, trying to figure out the equations to how every single thing works so they can meta it, build the best base, defeat the demolisher, eat the best food and then when they figure it out come back weeks later and say they want a challenge, we need better AI, things need to be less predictable.

                    Want to know how you can accomplish those things today? Stop trying to figure out how it works. This game is run on numbers and percent with a dash of RNG. As a modder once I figured all of that out I admit it became less fun. Because I know the expectations and the outcomes.

                    Maybe if everyone stopped worrying about how to beat the system, and when to do what and how all of us can sit down and just enjoy the experience for what it is.

                    Put the meta away and have some fun.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      I strongely disagree with some of this. The group of players that I have been playing with for 3+ years all have a lot of fun and we have dissected the crap out this game...down to how long a wooden door burns for in the forge VS normal wood, by the way go test that.

                      I think people just get burnt out like any other game, it's just now there is this trend going around the world where people just want to bitch and complain about anything and everything. 7 Days to Die is just another excuse for these pathetic people to bitch and fight with one another. If not 7D2D then it would be another game..in my opinion.

                      statement retracted -zombiesurvivor
                      Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 01-26-2020, 02:00 PM.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Roland View Post
                        It is our own fault if we seek out how exactly it works and then meta off of it and then wonder why it feels so souless.
                        I disagree. The formula becomes obvious after a few playthroughs, because it's too linear and predictable. And since the game allows the player to have that degree of agency over GS manipulation, you can't really blame them for trying to manipulate it.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by RestInPieces View Post
                          I disagree. The formula becomes obvious after a few playthroughs, because it's too linear and predictable. And since the game allows the player to have that degree of agency over GS manipulation, you can't really blame them for trying to manipulate it.
                          Yes, but the principle is still true. Even if they improve it to be out of the direct control of the player, make it more complex, and add random bits to it there will still be a formula and those who seek out the formula will feel much the same way as they do now. It would be great if it was random enough and complex enough that nobody could tell how it was operating simply through playing and observing and the only way to know would be to dig into the code.

                          What I am saying is that digging into the code is going to come with spoilers for your gameplay and may change how you play in way that someone who never looked at that code would do. But I am all for a better gamestages formula.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Roland View Post
                            The problem with gamestage is not that it is too difficult or too easy. It is that it is a direct reflection and result of player activity. Gamestage is supposed to be the state of the universe in which we live. It is the force that delivers the adversity that we overcome as well as the blessings we receive.

                            [...]
                            Probability of meeting stronger enemies, coming up against tougher challenges, and getting better loot should all happen independently of what the player chooses to do. It is wrong that you know that by killing more zombies and mining more ore and upgrading more blocks you are going to get a tougher world and better loot as a direct consequence of that.

                            [...]

                            The algorithm needs to have some wax and wane to it, some randomness to it, be location based, and honestly...obfuscated from our view. Only then will we feel like we are a small part of the universe and that the actions we take can work to lift ourselves out of bad situations but not change the nature of the global reality of the universe itself.
                            Fully agree. Randomizing across days, across location, across various factors would maybe help make it feel more organic and less of a "level * days alive" setup.

                            For quite a while now I've been saying similar, to give us higher challenge ratings in some areas and times, with more xp, more loot, but also more danger... wasteland? Much harder. Wasteland at night? Even more so! Stay in a quiet forest? Maybe less overall. Maybe the day after blood moon is safer. Maybe the days before blood moon are harder.

                            Maybe a radiated wind blew in reducing player attributes and increasing danger rating from zombies due to being "energized" or some such.

                            Not always easy to code in a straight forward fashion, but I hope it increasingly goes this direction too

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Roland View Post
                              Yes, but the principle is still true. Even if they improve it to be out of the direct control of the player, make it more complex, and add random bits to it there will still be a formula and those who seek out the formula will feel much the same way as they do now. It would be great if it was random enough and complex enough that nobody could tell how it was operating simply through playing and observing and the only way to know would be to dig into the code.

                              What I am saying is that digging into the code is going to come with spoilers for your gameplay and may change how you play in way that someone who never looked at that code would do. But I am all for a better gamestages formula.


                              I'll go a step further and say that people don't even need to dig into the code. "min-maxing"/beating "the system" is as old as gaming itself. People didn't have access to the 'code' in the original Devil May Cry game, but they practiced and perfected the best combination of moves to get the optimal result. There is, certainly, a thrill in that accomplishment, but the downside is that those who experiment that heavily with a game or 'dig into the code' sometimes do no realize that those very activities provide a short term victory and sacrifice long term enjoyment.

                              I understand how the gamestage forumla works, but I personally refuse to care about it or let it dictate how I wish to play a particular map. I've seen a lot on the forums about how Agility builds are terrible and sub-optimal, but I love it and will continue to play it.

                              That said, there are those truly dedicated (or masochistic) who choose to learn the inner workings solely to figure out how to make the next playthrough more difficult for themselves.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by ZombieSurvivor View Post
                                I strongely disagree with some of this. The group of players that I have been playing with for 3+ years all have a lot of fun and we have dissected the crap out this game...down to how long a wooden door burns for in the forge VS normal wood, by the way go test that.

                                I think people just get burnt out like any other game, it's just now there is this trend going around the world where people just want to bitch and complain about anything and everything. 7 Days to Die is just another excuse for these pathetic people to bitch and fight with one another. If not 7D2D then it would be another game..in my opinion.
                                I definitely do not disagree. I know some min maxers who analyze everything and enjoy that aspect. I was pointing to a specific subset of of players with my opinion.

                                "I think this is the baseline of why some people cant just enjoy the game"

                                Ghostlight for example had an entire thread about base design and defeating Demolishers and was throwing his hands up he couldnt, yet in this very thread says 16 was more challenging.

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