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POLL: Which Alpha had the best AI?

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    POLL: Which Alpha had the best AI?

    Which Alpha had/has the best overall zombie AI?
    45
    A18
    55.56%
    25
    A17
    2.22%
    1
    A16
    17.78%
    8
    A1-A15
    24.44%
    11
    Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 01-29-2020, 02:29 PM.

    #2
    i really like the "smart" zombies its a nice change of paste compared to the dumb as a rock zombies!


    and you have to outsmart them when building!


    and building bunkers won't save you as easily anymore!

    Comment


      #3
      Ironically, the smarter the zombies are, the easier they become to outsmart/exploit. So in fact, smarter = dumber.

      OK was there an actual difference in AI between A15 and A16? I do not remember it if there was, but I played 1000+ hours of A16, so my memory is not reliable in this regard....can anyone tell me before I vote if there was and what it was?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Ghostlight View Post
        OK was there an actual difference in AI between A15 and A16?
        I was asking myself the same question when I made this poll.... I cannot remember for the life of me lol
        Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 01-29-2020, 04:42 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Ghostlight View Post
          Ironically, the smarter the zombies are, the easier they become to outsmart/exploit. So in fact, smarter = dumber.

          OK was there an actual difference in AI between A15 and A16? I do not remember it if there was, but I played 1000+ hours of A16, so my memory is not reliable in this regard....can anyone tell me before I vote if there was and what it was?


          yeah but they can at least solve some basic problems (movement wise)

          they know spikes are dangerous , know to go after the weaker block , mazes and more

          Comment


            #6
            This is a very subjective poll as "best" can mean anything to anyone.

            For example:

            Best = Most Romero like
            Best = Most Complex
            Best = Most Simplistic
            Best = Most Memorable
            Etc....

            Comment


              #7
              The main difference between A15 and A16 was that zombies could no longer detect crouched players at night even just two blocks away. You could crouch walk right up to them and walk around them, chop trees down right next to them. You could hit them and then step away and crouch and you would be invisible.

              Also there was the bug that made them walk around in circles from time to time

              Other than that A16 was the same code where doors were prioritized, they would stand below unreachable players above them, ignore stilts, get stuck on fences, rocks, uneven ground etc, and a thin barrier of earth between them and a player below them was an unassailable force field.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Adam the Waster View Post
                yeah but they can at least solve some basic problems (movement wise)

                they know spikes are dangerous , know to go after the weaker block , mazes and more
                They don't know spikes are dangerous. They only see spikes as a block with hp. Nothing more.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I don't like diggers, thus I chose 16.

                  Ever since 17 and the ability to dig, zeds got super stupid with regards to stairs/ramps etc. They'd rather dig down than take the stairs.

                  Not to mention, the stacking up in 1 location to beat on a wall/door.

                  Otherwise, 18 does have a good AI, just don't like those 2 behaviours.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Roland View Post
                    They don't know spikes are dangerous. They only see spikes as a block with hp. Nothing more.
                    That's strange.

                    cuz when the horde comes and i reinforced my door like a Bank vault and my walls are ok and i got wooden spikes they just move around them. idk if they fixed that cuz i haven't played since A18.2 but im going to replay again!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Even if it wasn't the most challenging, I liked the quirks of the A16/15 AI because of how flavorful they made the zombies.

                      The way the zombies grossly prioritized doors gave the illusion that they had some deep seated hatred for them.

                      The random running in circles looked like something like they were having a temporary stoke or something, not surprising given the rapid neurological changes brought about by the infection.

                      Outsmarting them felt like I was outsmarting dumb zombies, while in A17 it felt like I was outsmarting the A* algorithm. (still haven't gotten to A18 yet)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        It is hard to argue against A18 here.

                        I would have liked them more if they would be more like A16s random pathings, but improved upon to remove circling and getting stuck in holes and stuff...

                        But when looking purely at the A.I. A18 is superior. Zombies don't GPS themselves through anymore and actually start whacking stuff that they feel is in the way, but they still know how to get to you, so except for very very large pois, just standing on top doesnt make you relax on hordenight.

                        I do like that they have straightened out a bit... but what I find most sad:

                        The game went from "defend the perimiter! Everywhere could be the next breach" to "funnel them! Concentrate all firepower and ressources on that small area", which makes for a more rewarding shooter, but a less intense hordenight, since oyu never need to go out there and clear zombies that hit the backwall!


                        Maybe give Z's a 20% chance to try and take another way, even if that way is far less optimal.
                        Kinda like that randomized pathing now, but with actually trying to create a new path.
                        Last edited by Crater Creator; 01-31-2020, 07:24 AM. Reason: NSFW term

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Roland View Post
                          The main difference between A15 and A16 was that zombies could no longer detect crouched players at night even just two blocks away. You could crouch walk right up to them and walk around them, chop trees down right next to them. You could hit them and then step away and crouch and you would be invisible.
                          This also happened in A17 - I remember it very clearly because a friend wanted to prove that there is no need for a base. Haven't noticed if it happens in A18 but zombies are certainly harder to lose after being detected.

                          Originally posted by Roland View Post
                          Also there was the bug that made them walk around in circles from time to time

                          Other than that A16 was the same code where doors were prioritized, they would stand below unreachable players above them, ignore stilts, get stuck on fences, rocks, uneven ground etc, and a thin barrier of earth between them and a player below them was an unassailable force field.
                          Yes, their priorities were a mess trying to path to you vertically before targeting any blocks and very often hitting irrelevant blocks to the player at the same time, when there was a longer path.


                          While I want zombies to be "dumb", them running in circles, never looked like dumb zombie behavior to me, but like a game glitch. Also this discussion is going nowhere because dumb is way too vague to describe what each person means.

                          Originally posted by Dimpy View Post
                          Even if it wasn't the most challenging, I liked the quirks of the A16/15 AI because of how flavorful they made the zombies.
                          Originally posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
                          Maybe give Z's a 20% chance to try and take another way, even if that way is far less optimal.
                          Kinda like that randomized pathing now, but with actually trying to create a new path.
                          Agree. They can still do much more to randomize zombie behavior.
                          Last edited by RestInPieces; 01-29-2020, 06:02 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
                            It is hard to argue against A18 here.

                            I would have liked them more if they would be more like A16s random pathings, but improved upon to remove circling and getting stuck in holes and stuff...

                            But when looking purely at the A.I. A18 is superior. Zombies don't GPS themselves through anymore and actually start whacking stuff that they feel is in the way, but they still know how to get to you, so except for very very large pois, just standing on top doesnt make you relax on hordenight.

                            I do like that they have straightened out a bit... but what I find most sad:

                            The game went from "defend the perimiter! Everywhere could be the next breach" to "funnel them! Concentrate all firepower and ressources on that small area", which makes for a more rewarding shooter, but a less intense hordenight, since oyu never need to go out there and clear zombies that hit the backwall!


                            Maybe give Z's a 20% chance to try and take another way, even if that way is far less optimal.
                            Kinda like that randomized pathing now, but with actually trying to create a new path.
                            You know what is funny is I saw this as being a possible issue before A18 was released and I brought up a solution (without actually saying this might be a problem and here is the solution, as I did not know what the AI would be like in A18 lol) for it in A18 dev diary.

                            Solution being Artificial Neural Network for artificial intelligence machine learning during horde nights. I cannot remember exactly how I pitched it though. I probably just strung those words together incorrectly but you know what I mean. I don't feel like googling right now to make sure I'm saying it right lol.
                            Last edited by Crater Creator; 01-31-2020, 07:33 AM. Reason: quote was edited

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ZombieSurvivor View Post
                              Solution being Artificial Neural Network for artificial intelligence machine learning during horde nights. I cannot remember exactly how I pitched it though. I probably just strung those words together incorrectly but you know what I mean. I don't feel like googling right now to make sure I'm saying it right lol.
                              No worries, what you mean is obvious :P, but I don't think there is a need for such a thing in a game where player behaviors are limited.

                              A good poll option may have been "mixed" or "A18 with improvements" for me at least.
                              Last edited by RestInPieces; 01-29-2020, 06:09 PM.

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