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POLL: Which Alpha had the best AI?

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    #46
    Originally posted by Roland View Post
    You are probably right about the 1-block egress but not about the leaping. Spiders leap further than other zombies so there is definitely differentiation there. And the xmls even allow you to enter leaping distances for individual zombies. Also the behemoth was dropped before faatal was hired and the old pathing couldn’t handle him either.

    In fairness I’ll add another: the new pathing can’t handle vertical surfaces which is why spiders changed to leaping instead of scaling. Here I was hoping they’d eventually be able to wall walk in all directions but now they can’t even go straight up. Point: A16
    In my experience the leap distance makes no difference in regards to the pathing of the individual zombies. The spiders could easily take some shortcuts but they only jump when they have a direct line of sight. Otherwise their pathing is the same as the pathing of the other zombies.

    Vedui once made a video in which he examined if the size of the zombies plays a role in pathing. The result was that even dogs, although they fit through a 1m opening, prefer a normal 2m opening even if it means a longer path.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK2W6hXAn3k

    It would be nice if it would be possible to sort the zombies by size. This would provide new possibilities for base building. Dogs and other smaller zombies in corridor 1, average large zombies in corridor 2 and the large zombies in corridor 3.

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      #47
      I picked the A1-A15 option, but I really liked the A15 AI.

      Being completely honest, this is what I would love.

      Give me the A15 AI for most zombies, where they just run at you no matter what. The bloodmoon spawns from ANYWHERE, rather than in front of you so you're being assailed from all sides.

      Then make the ferals act more like the AI we have now.

      So you've got a mix of smart zombies trying to actively work past your defenses, while you've got some dumb AF ones who just throw themselves at your base to try and break through.

      Why do I suggest this? Because if you have a ton of zombies that just pile on you to break through and create weakness (plus the fact they could come from ANY side) for the smart ones to exploit, it should make things a little more interesting on horde nights.

      Bonus points if we can configure that with XML.

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        #48
        I said it before:

        A16 AI for horde nights.

        A18 AI for everything else.

        The chaos of horde night has to be such that simple exploit structures cannot fool a hundred zombies. The pure randomness of what they attacked made hordes great in A16.

        In contrast, for the wandering zombie, the A18 pathing is great. They can slowly slither they way to you even in a tier 5 building.

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          #49
          Originally posted by Hazeree View Post
          I said it before:

          A16 AI for horde nights.

          A18 AI for everything else.

          The chaos of horde night has to be such that simple exploit structures cannot fool a hundred zombies. The pure randomness of what they attacked made hordes great in A16.

          In contrast, for the wandering zombie, the A18 pathing is great. They can slowly slither they way to you even in a tier 5 building.
          Except there were simple exploit structures that fooled hundreds of zombies on horde night with the old AI. Like stilt bases, for instance.


          This was from A14, but it would’ve kept me safe for 100 horde nights with no additional effort. I would hate to go back to that.
          Last edited by Crater Creator; 01-31-2020, 06:22 PM.

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            #50
            Originally posted by Roland View Post
            You are probably right about the 1-block egress but not about the leaping. Spiders leap further than other zombies so there is definitely differentiation there. And the xmls even allow you to enter leaping distances for individual zombies. Also the behemoth was dropped before faatal was hired and the old pathing couldn’t handle him either.

            In fairness I’ll add another: the new pathing can’t handle vertical surfaces which is why spiders changed to leaping instead of scaling. Here I was hoping they’d eventually be able to wall walk in all directions but now they can’t even go straight up. Point: A16
            i think it would be nice if the Spider zombie leaped at you he would look like he was going to pounce on you and if he hits you while in mid air he deals more damage. also i think the spider zombie leap should he like a Super jump. he could be able to jump 15 block high or 15 blocks long! IMO

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              #51
              Originally posted by Crater Creator View Post
              Except there were simple exploit structures that fooled hundreds of zombies on horde night with the old AI. Like stilt bases, for instance.


              This was from A14, but it would’ve kept me safe for 100 horde nights with no additional effort. I would hate to go back to that.
              Heck, you didn't even need that much. Just a suspension bridge made all out of wood = win game!

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                #52
                Originally posted by Crater Creator View Post
                Except there were simple exploit structures that fooled hundreds of zombies on horde night with the old AI. Like stilt bases, for instance.


                This was from A14, but it would’ve kept me safe for 100 horde nights with no additional effort. I would hate to go back to that.
                I forgot about that god awful fog before distant terrain was introduced. That also brings back a memory of MM once upon a time long long ago, saying distand terrain would never be possible in a voxel game. I should hand him his own boot to eat lol. This game has grown a lot since its infancy thats for sure.
                Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 01-31-2020, 07:54 PM.

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                  #53
                  I think the new "smart" zombies are a good experiment. I don't think they are a bad thing but I think ideally there would be variety in zombie behavior. The most important improvement they've gotten is with their pathfinding. They can at least reliably find a way to the player now assuming there is a path.

                  If they can keep their base pathfinding and then add random variation between if they can sense traps or not, and how they pathfind that would be cool. Like have an IQ level from 1-5 that is randomly assigned to zombies with the ability to specify what certain zombies get. For example, a nurse could be 3-5 while a screamer could be 4-5. An IQ 1 zombie probably would not be interested in pathfinding. They would take a point A to point B approach and try the most direct route to the player which would likely be beating down whatever is in front of them.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by ArcticPrism View Post
                    If they can keep their base pathfinding and then add random variation between if they can sense traps or not, and how they pathfind that would be cool.
                    I believe they already do this. Some are dumb while others are smart.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Hazeree View Post
                      I said it before:

                      A16 AI for horde nights.

                      A18 AI for everything else.

                      The chaos of horde night has to be such that simple exploit structures cannot fool a hundred zombies. The pure randomness of what they attacked made hordes great in A16.

                      In contrast, for the wandering zombie, the A18 pathing is great. They can slowly slither they way to you even in a tier 5 building.
                      Thinking about it a bit more, I am in complete agreement. Pity the poll wasn't specific in this regard.

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      Originally posted by Tin View Post
                      Heck, you didn't even need that much. Just a suspension bridge made all out of wood = win game!
                      How much ammo do you think it would take you to kill a GS 500 horde on decent difficulty with that. A base isn't just about surviving you need to kill the horde. And if you don't plan to do that and do not engage them at all, you do not even need a stilt base, just a rooftop.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Ghostlight View Post
                        How much ammo do you think it would take you to kill a GS 500 horde on decent difficulty with that. A base isn't just about surviving you need to kill the horde. And if you don't plan to do that and do not engage them at all, you do not even need a stilt base, just a rooftop.
                        At that alpha? It didn't take any ammo. Chop some trees and make a spike field. Done.

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by Tin View Post
                          At that alpha? It didn't take any ammo. Chop some trees and make a spike field. Done.
                          The infamous but extremely effective spike field, I'm so glad they made it harder to do that.
                          Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 02-02-2020, 05:52 PM.

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by Crater Creator View Post
                            Except there were simple exploit structures that fooled hundreds of zombies on horde night with the old AI. Like stilt bases, for instance.


                            This was from A14, but it would’ve kept me safe for 100 horde nights with no additional effort. I would hate to go back to that.
                            And infinite falling loops are even safer than that. And the stilt base is still a thing, just make them out of slopes and zombies are 'smart' enough to NOT attack them.

                            I am playing A16 for the past month. The complaints about stilts and circling zombies is way over embelished. Horde nights are extremely chaotic and the very small percent of broken behavior has no impact on the danger of the horde. Unlike the exploits existing today. Lack of digging down is the only real cheese exploit.

                            But whatever. I remember during A16 how everyone used to complain non-stop that bunker hiding during bloodmoon was soo wrong and to remove it with digging zombies. And the counter complaint was 'play your way and dont tell me how to play mine'. I wonder how infinite loops fits into that mentallity.

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by ZombieSurvivor View Post
                              The infamous but extremely effective spike field, I'm so glad they made it harder to do that.
                              That shot is from Neebs Gaming.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Beelzybub View Post
                                That shot is from Neebs Gaming.
                                Correct. Nice catch
                                Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 02-03-2020, 02:19 PM. Reason: choosing friendlier emoji

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