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    Catering to New Players hurts Replayability for Experienced Players

    Originally posted by madmole View Post
    You can't expect first timers to know stuff, so when a guy with 10k hours experience wants it harder for everyone you have to just roll your eyes.
    Hence why the game is boring and many only can play for a bit or play for 5 min then go nope need mods. Not like alphas ago when the game was a leveled plain where you had to actually learn the game and people would be plastered to the game figuring out recipes figuring out different things to make.

    Now its just oh the answer is easy as the game babies players... we all were new once and most the long timers learnt the game and was still pasted to the game. New players yeh they will find it easy but they will get bored after a few hrs knowing everything is handed on a plate.

    Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

    Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.
    Last edited by Roland; 02-12-2020, 06:06 PM.

    #2
    I have over 1000 hours and the game is boring now!

    Originally posted by stallionsden View Post
    Hence why the game is boring and many only can play for a bit or play for 5 min then go nope need mods. Not like alphas ago when the game was a leveled plain where you had to actually learn the game and people would be plastered to the game figuring out recipes figuring out different things to make.

    Now its just oh the answer is easy as the game babies players... we all were new once and most the long timers learnt the game and was still pasted to the game. New players yeh they will find it easy but they will get bored after a few hrs knowing everything is handed on a plate.

    Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

    Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.
    Perhaps you should rephrase it to, "[You] don't find the game enjoyable anymore and maybe [you] should move on to something that satisfies [your] time. Or maybe roll back a few alphas."

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by stallionsden View Post
      Hence why the game is boring and many only can play for a bit or play for 5 min then go nope need mods. Not like alphas ago when the game was a leveled plain where you had to actually learn the game and people would be plastered to the game figuring out recipes figuring out different things to make.

      Now its just oh the answer is easy as the game babies players... we all were new once and most the long timers learnt the game and was still pasted to the game. New players yeh they will find it easy but they will get bored after a few hrs knowing everything is handed on a plate.

      Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

      Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.
      I don’t think that’s accurate at all. This game has stayed above 25k peak consecutive players for going on five months now. That has never happened before and while not absolute proof of more people than ever remaining pasted to the game it is a damn good indicator of it. In my opinion more people have stuck to A18 for longer than any previous alpha.

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        #4
        Originally posted by Roland View Post
        I don’t think that’s accurate at all. This game has stayed above 25k peak consecutive players for going on five months now. That has never happened before and while not absolute proof of more people than ever remaining pasted to the game it is a damn good indicator of it. More people have stuck to A18 for longer than any previous alpha.
        He did make a good point though; the fan base wasn't exactly small prior to the simplification for new players, so obviously there was/is a market for a tougher/more complcated game, otherwise it wouldn't have grown the way it did prior to the simplification process.

        Plus, modding is a WHOLE lot easier than it was in earlier alpha's, and a lot more players are playing mods, so although I'm not foolish enough to say that there aren't more vanilla players than before, I will say that there is still a decent sized base of players who enjoyed and understood the more complicated game play.

        I've always said it's a good business decision for the pimps to dumb it down and make it like every other game out there, but it still makes me sad. =)

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Guppycur View Post
          He did make a good point though; the fan base wasn't exactly small prior to the simplification for new players, so obviously there was/is a market for a tougher/more complcated game, otherwise it wouldn't have grown the way it did prior to the simplification process.

          Plus, modding is a WHOLE lot easier than it was in earlier alpha's, and a lot more players are playing mods, so although I'm not foolish enough to say that there aren't more vanilla players than before, I will say that there is still a decent sized base of players who enjoyed and understood the more complicated game play.

          I've always said it's a good business decision for the pimps to dumb it down and make it like every other game out there, but it still makes me sad. =)
          Hey, it worked for Firaxis when they redid Xcom and now there is Xcom: Long War for those who want the longer more complex game.

          Reference:
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_War_(mod)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Roland View Post
            I don’t think that’s accurate at all. This game has stayed above 25k peak consecutive players for going on five months now. That has never happened before and while not absolute proof of more people than ever remaining pasted to the game it is a damn good indicator of it. In my opinion more people have stuck to A18 for longer than any previous alpha.
            Thats cause all the new players need the answers given to them. Cant think how to make something with out the game giving them the answer.

            I will stand on my words that alot of people. Alot of the long timers who once loved this game passionately.

            Earlier alphas gave challenges. It made us use our brains In every aspect. Dont need to now rinse and repeat rinse and repeat rinse and repeat. Sorry if this butt hurts a few but this game has dropped a lot to many. Many have quit cause of it being boring and offering very little.

            When a mod offers more challenges then the base game there os somethong wrong. When long timers are leaving and getting bored cause the game has turned to easy and offers no challenges or needing to use the brain. So damn right we want to see this game harder go back to people needing to use their brain.

            25k. anyone will buy a $2 game whether they continue playing it after the first time or 5th time is a different story.

            I do understand the need for new players to learn the game but isnt that what the starter quests were brought in for.

            Give the new players a play of how it use to be and see their thoughts.

            Oh when ya move this to general and give it a silly name cause it saves face give it a serious name....
            Last edited by stallionsden; 02-03-2020, 05:51 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by stallionsden View Post
              Thats cause all the new players need the answers given to them. Cant think how to make something with out the game giving them the answer.

              I will stand on my words that alot of people. Alot of the long timers who once loved this game passionately.

              Earlier alphas gave challenges. It made us use our brains In every aspect. Dont need to now rinse and repeat rinse and repeat rinse and repeat. Sorry if this butt hurts a few but this game has dropped a lot to many. Many have quit cause of it being boring and offering very little.

              When a mod offers more challenges then the base game there os somethong wrong. When long timers are leaving and getting bored cause the game has turned to easy and offers no challenges or needing to use the brain. So damn right we want to see this game harder go back to people needing to use their brain.

              25k. anyone will buy a $2 game whether they continue playing it after the first time or 5th time is a different story.

              I do understand the need for new players to learn the game but isnt that what the starter quests were brought in for.

              Give the new players a play of how it use to be and see their thoughts.

              Oh when ya move this to general and give it a silly name cause it saves face give it a serious name....
              What you describe is unavoidable and probably common for many early access games. Once your a veteran at this game it will become increasingly harder to be challenged and keep playing especially if you don't like any aspects of modding.

              Hopefully many of the veterans will continue to come back periodically with each and every major release and find joy/entertainment on the the overall changes that occur.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Laz Man View Post
                What you describe is unavoidable and probably common for many early access games. Once your a veteran at this game it will become increasingly harder to be challenged and keep playing especially if you don't like any aspects of modding.

                Hopefully many of the veterans will continue to come back periodically with each and every major release and find joy/entertainment on the the overall changes that occur.
                Some of that was my own views and thoughts true. But i not asking for it to become hard so only seasoned players can play it. Just make the gane so we have a actual challenge and have to use our brains. Before mods are added. I seriously play for like 15 min and am bored starter quests take 2 minutes and get rid of rinse and repeat. But those 10k hrs players even 2k and 5k etc have a legitamate reason and they also have a say and opinion to.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by stallionsden View Post
                  Thats cause all the new players need the answers given to them. Cant think how to make something with out the game giving them the answer.
                  Old people have been saying this about young people for thousands of years.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Gazz View Post
                    Old people have been saying this about young people for thousands of years.
                    Well true i didnt word that right. Lemme explain. Previous alphas before it became dumbed downed we had to use our brain on most the game. Now its just game gives the player the game so to speak. So of course bew players are gonna play cause its easy and the game gives them the answers.

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                      #11
                      And what "old players" like to leave out is how much new stuff didn't even exist back then so they didn't have to learn about it. =P

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Gazz View Post
                        And what "old players" like to leave out is how much new stuff didn't even exist back then so they didn't have to learn about it. =P
                        None of this is to do with the new stuff added. Xpath is awesome. The new items and blocks are cool.

                        Gazz you need to stop giving non related and poor responses like you did with the realism difference of opinion and conflicting responses . Never said the new stuff was what was causing the boredom. Its to do with the simpleness of this game the no need to use our brains to play the game. I am sure you want this game replayable more then just once or twice. Not bored after 1 play thru or 15 min.
                        Last edited by stallionsden; 02-03-2020, 06:46 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by stallionsden View Post
                          Oh when ya move this to general and give it a silly name cause it saves face give it a serious name....
                          Never fear. If I move your posts to GD, I will be sure to give them a wholly appropriate title....

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by stallionsden View Post
                            But i not asking for it to become hard so only seasoned players can play it. Just make the game so we have a actual challenge and have to use our brains.
                            Then throw away your guns and use the bow or crossbow. Then you have to use your brain because you can't run into a POI with guns blazing. You have to be sneaky and careful and think strategically. You can also set the zombies to alway run which requires to be even more cautious.

                            If you don't use a guns anymore, this will also have an effect on the construction of the horde base. You will have to use traps and strategy instead of just making tons of ammunition for the M60 and shooting the zombies from a tower.

                            Guns are the problem. They make everything too easy because you don't have to think. You just have to shoot and that doesn't require thinking, just reacting.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by RipClaw View Post
                              Then throw away your guns and use the bow or crossbow. Then you have to use your brain because you can't run into a POI with guns blazing. You have to be sneaky and careful and think strategically. You can also set the zombies to alway run which requires to be even more cautious.

                              If you don't use a guns anymore, this will also have an effect on the construction of the horde base. You will have to use traps and strategy instead of just making tons of ammunition for the M60 and shooting the zombies from a tower.

                              Guns are the problem. They make everything too easy because you don't have to think. You just have to shoot and that doesn't require thinking, just reacting.
                              I do use my bow more then guns. Guns arent the problem and your not reading what i am saying. The play of the game is to simple the how to make this or how to make that the answers are given to you. The challenge of the game is easy one can easily go into a poi with a bow (not hard to build enough arrows to how many you require to clear a poi)

                              the base defense or the objects and items in the game has nothing to do with what I am saying at all. build those things without needing or being told what you require for starters. the old crafting grid was great you had to place each requirement in the exact box to make what you needed. this is an example of what i mean. more challenges rather then rinse and repeat. yes collecting ingredients you cant avoid but better challenges like quests go here get this. go here get this. really do that 4 times and it is boring.

                              bring back the scared factor of the game. not many jump out your pants situations unlike previous alphas. when you truly did crap yaself. These but examples of making the game more leveled for everyone.

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