Jump to content

Mental illness and making water


SavagE

Recommended Posts

How come to make 'bottled water' I have to make 'bottled murky water', then remove it from the fireplace and put it in my backpack, then take it out of my backpack and put it back in to the fireplace like an insane person. How is taking it out and putting it back in any different than leaving it in longer? You've added superfluous actions which make no sense. You used to choose to make 'bottled murky water' or 'bottled water'. If it takes longer to make 'bottled water' then increase the cook time for 'bottled water' .

 

 

P.S also link the fireplace inventory to the crafting options which will remove the need to put things from the fireplace inv into your inv just to put them right back in to the fireplace. It's a superfluous action. To be honest i think you should be able to do normal crafting from the cooking window too. I was cooking and remembered I needed to make a poncho so in my inv I right clicked on my leather stack but making a poncho was greyed out. So I had to leave the fireplace to make it then come back in. Why? What difference does it make if i can make a poncho when I'm at the fireplace. Why not? Less screwing around is always a positive thing. Just make all normal crafting available along with the crafting options no matter what you're using. If you try it you'll see it makes no difference at all and just saves us the need to keep jumping in and out of crafting windows which is annoying, well annoying to me anyway....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an easy reason for that, and that's because some recipes actually require murky water. Not only that, but murky water stacks a lot higher. So not only does it save a recipe in the XML files but it potentially saves fuel so you don't leave a fire going with full output slots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an easy reason for that, and that's because some recipes actually require murky water. Not only that, but murky water stacks a lot higher. So not only does it save a recipe in the XML files but it potentially saves fuel so you don't leave a fire going with full output slots.

 

Higher stacking of murky water doesn't help at all when you need water. Snowballs stack at least as good as murky water so murky water has no advantage over snowballs for storing

 

Yes, saving a recipe is probably the reason they don't have such a recipe (if anyone doesn't know there was a time when the automatic sorting of recipes was a major fps killer). I don't know how well they have optimized it at the moment, that reason might not be that important anymore. If it still is, further optimizations might be needed if there is no place for the potentially most used recipe of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an easy reason for that, and that's because some recipes actually require murky water.

 

That's a reason to have a recipe for snow → murky (which OP didn't question BTW), not a reason to not have a recipe for snow → boiled.

 

The lack of the latter is a strange thing to get so worked up about, but IMO it's equally strange that it was cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(if anyone doesn't know there was a time when the automatic sorting of recipes was a major fps killer)

 

That boggles my mind given that recipes are essentially a tiny bit of text, and even on PCs hosting DOS, using processors from the days of PCs hosting DOS, vast amounts of text could be sorted in the blink of an eye.

 

 

-Morloc

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That boggles my mind given that recipes are essentially a tiny bit of text, and even on PCs hosting DOS, using processors from the days of PCs hosting DOS, vast amounts of text could be sorted in the blink of an eye.

 

 

-Morloc

 

 

It was never just sorting as simple text list. Each sort also depends on what recipes you actually know and which recipes can be done with the materials in your inventory!!! Comfort has its price

 

EDIT: To make it clear, the costly thing about sorting for stuff that you can actually build is finding out which recipes you can actually build at a given moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That boggles my mind given that recipes are essentially a tiny bit of text, and even on PCs hosting DOS, using processors from the days of PCs hosting DOS, vast amounts of text could be sorted in the blink of an eye.

 

They used the rarely-seen Random Insertion Sort algorithm:

 

1) Using RNG, randomly insert each element into the list

2) Check the list to see if it is sorted correctly

3) If it is not sorted correctly, remove all items and repeat at #1

 

That's what you get for hiring MIS majors. <ducks>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Well...it's not all that efficient, but it's easy to code, and heck, on today's PCs, who'll notice the difference! :smilet-digitalpoint:congratulatory:

 

 

 

-Morloc

Yeah like having Winamp open and not even playing kills 20FPS on a i7 9700k with 32GB DDR 3000. I will never understand that one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They used the rarely-seen Random Insertion Sort algorithm

Hey, they're just ahead of the curve.. or just prepared for the eventual projected release date; whichever you prefer. As in, once we all have quantum-based computers, that RI-Sort is essentially a one clock cycle event.. maybe two, but hey ho :)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Higher stacking of murky water doesn't help at all when you need water. Snowballs stack at least as good as murky water so murky water has no advantage over snowballs for storing

 

Yes, saving a recipe is probably the reason they don't have such a recipe (if anyone doesn't know there was a time when the automatic sorting of recipes was a major fps killer). I don't know how well they have optimized it at the moment, that reason might not be that important anymore. If it still is, further optimizations might be needed if there is no place for the potentially most used recipe of the game.

 

I never really understood this as it would seem from the user prospective that menus, sorting and inventories are low impact when compared with so many other tasks yet this is a universal performance issue with games as far as I can tell. There is clearly a lot more going on than I understand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is clearly a lot more going on than I understand.
Hmm.. quite likely. It's not that the issue of inventory sorting (plus the recipes etc) wouldn't be a trivial challenge when done "right"; it's just that it is extremely easy to get "just wrong enough" from the get go that once you run into performance issues, you'd need to rewrite the whole thing. At that point it's a lot easier to try and tweak the existing system to perform well enough, but ... then you have a suboptimal implementation with a pack or two of bubble gum on top... :)

 

Don't get me wrong, I have no idea what the situation is with TFP/7dtd, so I'm not accusing them of anything.. just hoping they'd improve their algorithmic side of inventory management - if for nothing else, so that modders could extend the system at will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

in general, a rather strange topic and you should not be so globally steamed. If you go into every little detail like that, you'll go crazy, I'm not kidding. It is much easier to live and not think, to think about something easy that does not require so much mental stress. When I started thinking hard about something, it didn't lead to anything good. I hope you're all right now. Take care of yourself, dude

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/21/2020 at 3:21 AM, SavagE said:

How is taking it out and putting it back in any different than leaving it in longer?

The ouput-slots of the camp fire are... as the name says.... output, not input. Input is your inventory.

 

On 3/21/2020 at 3:21 AM, SavagE said:

You've added superfluous actions which make no sense. You used to choose to make 'bottled murky water' or 'bottled water'. If it takes longer to make 'bottled water' then increase the cook time for 'bottled water' .

You need murky water for other receipes, too. I.e. to make glue. So removing murky water entirely (and increase cooking time of water) would break other receips.

And as roland said, you don't need to cook murky water, you can just pick up murky water from every water source. You need to cook murky water if you use snow. Then see it as the melting process. And yes, that's not realistic, but it's also not realistic that snow doesn't melt anyway. This is a game, not a real-life-simulator.

 

Probably it's possible to add another receipe to craft snow+bottle directly into drinkable water with increased cooking time. But that might confuse people to choose the correct receipe for the given output, regarding weather they want to craft from snow+bottle or from murky water.

 

Another tip: to reduce your "clicking hell". Place a second campfire. Use the first camp fire to cook snow into murky water, put a job with 500 there, let it run "forever". Use the second camp fire to bulk-craft the murky water from the first camp fire into water. Doing the cooking for only few items a time, is inefficient anyway (not just because of the clicking).

 

On 3/21/2020 at 3:21 AM, SavagE said:

So I had to leave the fireplace to make it then come back in. Why? What difference does it make if i can make a poncho when I'm at the fireplace. Why not?

Because other ways your poncho would have been cooked in the camp fire.

 

There are receips that you can either craft in a workbench or in inventory, e.g. duct tape. While you are in the workbench menu, how should the game know where you want to craft your stuff? Since you are in the workbench menu, it assumes, you want to use the workbench.

Even if there are no receips craftable in the camp fire you could also do in your inventory, i guess simply every crafting station follow the same mechanics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...