bloom_meister

Your misquoting and misunderstanding make a reasoned response non viable, my post stated your viewpoint was as valid as anyones elses and apparently you took offense at that..................mindboggled....... believe what you will and i will do the same,

His opinion on what motivates him is equally as valid as yours, fact is that the current options allow for both of you to have fun, restricting his playstyle to YOUR wants would be as dumb as restricting your playstyle to what HE wants. - - - Updated - - - It comes from people talking crap Claim stone modifiers for both size of the claim and strength of the claim work perfectly, its only the offline strength aspect that's been broken for a while now, specifically that its the same online as offline.

Sorry Gazz but all these ideas are simply terrible. In your example I simply wouldnt 'grow' my base and it would remain unraidable forever, pvp players always find the tricks to get around silly rules. Roland said earlier that players need an 'easy in' to pvp, I will state factually that this already exists, in existing game options. Option 1 - Low zombie damage Option 2 - 200% loot Option 3 - 3 day respawn Option 4 - Invulnerable claimstones Option 5 - Drop nothing on death All available from EXISTING game server options screen and would make for a very VERY easy learning curve. You guys want to remove choice, you think that because a player is too stupid to pick a server config that is suitable for them and might pick a server with a more hardcore ruleset, that ALL players should be nerfed in response, and this is simply the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a very long time on these forums. The server select screen shows all the options I listed above and the player decides the experience they want to have, now if i pick drop all on death, 25% loot with 30 day respawns and a claim protection of x4 then I get completely owned its MY CHOICE! if you want carebear mode with drop nothing on death and unraidable bases then thats YOUR CHOICE. Or any settings in between. What is so wrong with letting people decide, themselves, on the game experience they want and then leaving them to it????? The kind of zero patience low effort players you want to pander to are the same guys who turn down the difficulty to easy in SP games because they cannot make it past a certain checkpoint, and you know what, thats FINE, they dont achieve as much because they set the bar low for themselves. And what for the love of god is so wrong with a players, you know, l e a r n i n g that maybe this server is a bit tough and they need to check server settings and play on an easier one??? Fix the dupes, fix the glitches, fix the hacks, THOSE are what spoil pvp, NOT being able to setup or find a server that caters to your playstyle.

Roland, When I comment on something i always try and go from the perspective of the vanilla game. Sure, i recognise and have played all the mods and various extremes of server configs but when i comment on game balance issues I generally stick to that vanilla perspective because I know that TFP use that as their yardstick. I say this because whilst I agree that players can also act in ways that are at extreme ends of the spectrum I base my comments on the 'average' PVP players, with whom I have had thousands of interactions, raids, vendettas, discussions and good times. Its from the perspective of the median that you should balance both the gameplay and the players requirements, its pointless to point out exceptions and try to utilise them to prove or disprove a point because they are by definition, exceptions.

Firstly I will answer your earlier question as to whether I level bases routinely. The answer would be a definate no except where the base is built really close to me, say within sniping distance or, and more commonly, where there is a grudge/rivalry/bad blood. I have to say that when there IS a grudge or bad blood it makes the whole thing very satisfying to destroy their base. Secondly lets talk about the practicality of griefing a base. You see the likelihood of your base getting destroyed is inversely proportional to the effort you put into it and this is key as you have repeatedly said things along the lines of ''all their hard work / effort is wasted''. Now if you spent an evening build a smallish wood base then its going to be pretty easy (if you have late game tools) to take that base out BUT all the players I know would not do that because we dont want to run people off the server who are noobs, sure we will steal their stuff but very likely leave their base intact. If we DO destroy that little wooden base then the owner didnt lose much effort anyway. Now if you want to destroy a large to very large concrete and steel base it would, i agree, be a huge loss of time for the owner but here is where you are showing your lack of knowledge (and i mean this respectfully), because anyone thats built a 30k-100k concrete block fortress will have multiple claims hidden all over the place AND probably connected it to bedrock so the effort to take out that base is simply beyond the means of any player, I mean some of these bases would take RL weeks to take down and therefore they do NOT get griefed, which when you think about your point on people losing their hard work is, I would say, working as intended. TLDR Small low tech bases that take no effort to build can be taken out and the builder loses very little large end game tech bases take huge effort to build and are virtually ungriefable

Posted by Roland View Post What about a single claim block that is indestructible but needs nodes to extend its claim zone and the nodes are destructible? Then you could have different nodes that add different abilities. It would be like adding perks to your base and allow for more customization and also provide the infiltration feeling of removing layers of protection. No no no no no! Invulnerable claims should be a CHOICE, available to servers owners when they set up their server, NOT a fixed demand. If you make invulnerable areas you kill raiding dead, immediately. If ANYONE can tell me why server owners having a CHOICE of protection strengths based on how they want their server to be (just like it is today..........) is a BAD thing then i would really, truly like to hear your logic because I dont think you can make the case against the choice option. - - - Updated - - - All these things should be server settings, let the players play how they WANT to.

Quoted for the win. And yes, i am special Guppy =p but back on topic, the last point Guppy made is THE MOST IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dont want drop all? dont play on those servers Want invulnerable claims? play on THOSE servers Want fast levelling and 200% loot? play on those servers Want fast great quality everything with no grind? play on servers with those mods I mean no-one MAKES these ********* play on servers they dont like, there are THOUSANDS of servers out there, PICK ONE YOU LIKE! And if, by some miracle (i dont think this is possible) you cant find what you like then start one yourself if your 'specialness' is SOOO important to you. Putting aside some sensible game balance items a few experienced and knowledgeable players have mentioned there are zero reasons to make a PVP game mode, my god what a waste of dev effort, just senseless. Just give options in server creation (expand on those already there) and nothing else at all is needed

Wow a little unsure where to start with this one.... 1. So the current system punishes people that play less? that's an interesting concept, lets explore it. You choose to play for (lets go big) 4 hours a day and more on a weekend cause you really like the game. Player B who we will call 'nolifeloser' in your terms, plays 10 hours per day and obviously does not work, could be retired, unemployed, ill or whatever. You choose to spend the majority of your day working, which is productive, gets you money which you use to pay your bills and feed and look after your family. 'nolifeloser' either doesn't need to work or doesn't care to or simply cannot. So you want the game to value your 4 hours as being MORE valuable than his 10 hours and in your example him spending 10 hours to raid a full steel base is punishing you....even though he spent 10 hours of his life doing it while you were out earning money and doing other productive stuff. What on earth gives you the right to devalue the time commitment he spent or to say that your time is worth more than his? In the real world those who spend more time on their careers and work tend to earn more and be more successful, this is how life works. Perhaps you want a socialist nirvana where everyone is equal no matter their efforts? Either way your logic is offensive 2. High level players can kill low level players Well welcome to life (again!). People who work out are stronger than you, people who run for a hobby are faster and fitter than you and yes, people who train in the arts of warfare are deadlier than you. Stop whining and try, you know, competing? 3. People who start before you do have an advantage. Err....yes, and this is wrong because?.......do you whine that the CEO is paid more and has more leave and a hot wife because he has been doing his job for 40 years and 'started before you' ? maybe you should complain that those ranchers in the mid west have a 100k acre ranch is unfair because their family got their in the 1800's and 'got there before you' ? Your point is simply ridiculous. 4. Solo is weaker than a group You already know my answer right? .................although a group is stronger you can still fight off much higher numbers if you design well and play smart, I am currently fighting off a team of 4 (solo) who have been trying to raid me for a week, and btw i work full time. But normally yes, more people can defeat less people, its kind of a rule of nature and yet this appears to be a suprise for you.. As to your last point, you moved on because you are weak and cannot compete, its called ragequit for a reason.

Agree totally Roland is wrong here, pvp has been enhanced, multiple times, by the ability to grow your character. If you like Rolands idea then hey, why not spawn in fully geared with the best weapons and a pre built fortress cause hey! 'HARD WORKS SUCKS RIGHT'' ?

Gazz those are truly awful options, I mean just terrible. Poojam is correct that by allowing multiple claims you enhance the defending players options on survivability of his base and his loot and can be a lot more creative with base design

So here we go... There are only 2 types of games that involve players killing other players, the first type you can think of as CoD or the BF series, these have progression but its minimal and a level 1 player can quite easily kill a level 100 player, death has zero impact or penalty and there is no 'working' on your character or skills, sometimes you get a new unlock but its no big upgrade usually. The second type of game, and here I will use WoW as an example, has a very wide and tall progression tree where the skills and gear difference between say a level 10 and a level 100 is massive. Depending on the ruleset you may lose all your items when you die, lose experience and or time/progression. Building powerful characters in this type of game requires hard work. 7DTD started off more like the first type of game and this was because health was capped at 100 and armour did not work and therefore some level 1 could kill you with headshot from a crossbow quite easily and there was no wellness loss so dying had no penalty, pvp was therefore not very exciting because all you would lose was your crossbow/weapon and you would suffer no other penalties. over time, as we got loot quality for weapons, armour and tools, as we got wellness increased to 200 (250 with perks) and perks to increase damage and reduce damage taken PVP changed to where it is today. Today (assuming vanilla settings) there is a noticeable difference between a player who has worked really hard to improve their health, armour and weapons and one who has not. Can the level 1 still kill you (with a bow now instead of a crossbow) ? well not easily no, but neither is it impossible for a skilled player who chooses the right time to attack. If you lose your high end weapon and perhaps your armour too (if playing drop all) then this can be a significant setback and if you die a lot then your wellness will get hammered. For me and I think most PVP players in 7DTD we dont want the COD type gameplay, we want something where your hard work makes a difference, otherwise why invest time into the game? we want to fight for the small incremental increases in power that will, eventually, make you more of a badass. The wonderful thing about 7DTD is its a sandbox and how YOU play PVP, right now, with the game in its current form, has consequences and if you want to bumble around picking fights you cant win (low level bow and no armour v full iron armour with a sniper rifle) then sure, you can, but the smart player picks their perks and invests their points in a way that allows them the freedom to play as they want rather than be constrained by 'hard coded' gameplay styles. Lastly it should absolutely not be a level playing field except that everyone has the same options and choices but if I make better decisions and play longer and smarter then I should have an advantage, this is no different to anything in real life, you work hard at something and you get good at it/richer/healthier. this is how life works, don't try and channel us into some twitch playstyle because If your pvp players want that they will go play other games that are vastly better at it such as COD and BF.

Ok Gazz you took the time to post as a neutral observer, allow me to respond as a partisan one 1. Sound Sound has changed dramatically over the last few Alphas. You used to be able to hear an auger from at least 3-4k away, which was silly, likewise you could hear a forge clinking away from a good 1k+. Now its hard to hear anything over 100m away so some thing such as gunshots and augers probably need their audible range increasing. On your example of trying to sneak up on someone with 50% food i suggest you are not approaching this with the right mindset (as a non pvp player). PvP players take this into account and smart ones try to stay near full all the time, If i see another player or a base then i make sure i wont be making hungry noises before approaching them. 2. Offline raiding Anti raid base design is an art, it takes time to learn all the tricks to making your loot safe. At this point in the game I never get successfully raided even when offline a couple of days. I am not going to give away all my hard earned experience here but suffice to say, if you get raided and they get into your loot room (this topic doesn't include hackers, different topic) then YOU made an error in your design or you play on a server with protection VERY low. Sub topic - Griefing. If you play on a server that allows griefing, and all the popular PVP servers state their rules, then you know what to expect. Note however that if your claims are well hidden/protected and you have some concrete/steel fortress that no-one, and i do mean no-one, is going to take that base down because the time investment is simply insane and the reward is at best minimal. If you dont like the thought of being griefed (as defined by a particular server) then guess what, don't play on servers that allow it! personally I play on full no rules servers, anything goes I find to be good fun. 3. Recovering from a raid Quick point here on your 'static' spawn points, I have never, in the ridiculous playtime I have, ever spawned into a player made cage or know anyone who has. I did once appear on a couple of spikes, once. Any smart player on a pvp server has a recovery stash, personally I will have 2-4 and they will have everything you could ever want to get back up and running straight away, I have not need them for a looong time but they are there, just in case. When and how you hide them is the trick of it but I leave that up to you. the point is that, as the saying goes, to put all your eggs in one basket is really stupid. 4. Explosives - currently non viable as raiding tools, not much else to say except that if you only have one claim and they get it out them tnt becomes extremely viable for making a big smoking hole where someones base used to be 5. Time management I am afraid your example of timings is irrelevant because every server has different setting, suffice to say that on, say, x32 protection, with miner 69 on level 5 and 600Q steel pickaxe it takes a LOOOOONNGGGG time to take down a triple reinforced steel door. Time management is all about your skill level+your tools level+the location of what you are hitting vs protection factor of the claims and IF you have people with you. Your example of stone is simply wrong, its protected like anything else and still takes time to destroy.

I can appreciate that you have modded some changes to make the pvp 'as you want it' but I and most other pvp players would actually disagree with many of your points. I wont go through them all but I did want to focus on one in particular with regard to the time investment. Many many players in pvp really enjoy taking the time to build up a truly strong base (no matter the protection settings). As with all things in life the harder something is to achieve the more satisfying it becomes and when you finish off that super secure fortress you have been working on its genuinely a great feeling, especially when you know its safe enough that you can log off and not worry about it (too much). A lot of players dont want fast resources or fast building, they want the opposite, they want it to be hard and when you come across that giant fortress they want to have a feeling of awe and excitement at the time taken to do it.

disagree entirely and btw we raid at x64 protection and its a good balance between hard and rewarding.

You are quite obviously harbouring some grudges after being raided in the past and you know nothing about raiding yourself which is apparent by your last sentence above. Things to consider when going to raid a base; 1. Do we need to build a staging base, where should we put our bags down 2. Do we need to go underground as the base has excellent above ground vantage points 3. Do we know who the owner/s are 4. Do we check to see if anyone is home, if they are, what are our options 5. Do we take our best tools and gear on servers where you will lose them if you die, this is often difficult call 6. Do the owners have allies and are they close by 7. Is the server really busy and are we likely to be interrupted, if so what do we do about it 8. How many people can we take, if multiple then what are their roles (lookout, back guard, miners) 9. Do we have an idea of the layout judging from the external design 10. Should we try and locate the claims and remove them or just try and find their loot 11. Where are the owners sleeping bags, important to get these first to make the rest of the raid easier once we kill them Those are just off the top of my head, there are many more considerations and just because YOU dont like raiding does not mean it involves no gameplay.